For instance, nowhere does the Bible ever speak of billions of years. In Genesis 1, the word day (yôm) in context, as used for the six Days of Creation (with a number and the phrase evening and morning), means these days are approximately 24-hour periods—ordinary days. However, probably the majority of church leaders insist these days could represent billions of years—this is ‘eisegesis’, as the billions of years is a belief from outside of Scripture that is read into Scripture (resulting in the clear words of Scripture being reinterpreted on the basis of these outside ideas).

The Random House Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary defines EXEGESIS as: “critical explanation or interpretation of a text or portion of a text, especially of the Bible.” This is often called the ‘grammatical-historical’ interpretation method. Thus, when someone reads the words of Scripture, and interprets them on the basis of context and the type of literature etc., then this would be an example of ‘exegesis’—reading out of Scripture what the writer clearly intended to express. This method of interpretation involves making God’s Word the authority and letting its words speak to us—reading out of Scripture.

In Genesis 1, the Hebrew word for day (yôm), as used for each of the six Days of Creation, would be looked at in regard to context and the type of literature. Genesis is written in typical Hebrew historical narrative—this is important to understand when interpreting the words of this book. One will find that whenever yôm (day) is qualified by a number or the phrase evening and morning, it always means an ordinary day. Thus, critically looking at the text and then reading out of Scripture, one cannot come to any other conclusion except that these days were ordinary (24-hour) days.

“Sadly, the church is infected with the eisegesis ‘virus’—and as a result, the Christian worldview that was once so prevalent in the Western world is waning. This has caused them to incorrectly interpret God’s Holy Word. This often results in doubt about, or even unbelief in, Biblical doctrines. It has placed a stumbling block before people in the world, one which results in them scoffing at, and not being willing to take seriously, the words of Scripture.

God’s people need a good dose of the exegesis ‘vaccine’ to restore the foundations of God’s Word that the Christian worldview is built upon.

As Martin Luther said:
‘ … I have often said that whoever would study Holy Scripture should be sure to see to it that he stays with the simple words as long as he can and by no means departs from them unless an article of faith compels him to understand them differently. For of this we must be certain: no simpler speech has been heard on Earth than what God has spoken.’”
(Ken Ham - Eisegesis: a Genesis Virus - http://creation.com/eisegesis)

Growing in Him - Joanne

You're right about the church being infected with disbelief. There are over 200 different denominations and I think they said at least another 2 or 3 sub-denominations per denomination. Why so many? Because the real truth is so limited as to where it is being taught.

The Jews believe they have the true truth. The Catholics think they have it, so do the Lutherans &c. What it comes down to is that everyone has created their own interpretation of the Gospels and they look for who will tickle their ears and give them that rendition.

The Rabbi said on Sabbath that there are 288 different ways to interpret the Bible and the Holy Scriptures per book of the Bible. so multiply the 66 books by 288 equals 19,008 different opinions on what the Bible really says. Who is correct?

Joanne all we can do is take it before the LORD and let Him guide our steps. Thursday morning the LORD started me off with a song like He often does to give me a direction. Not the whole song but just a few words. This morning the song was Jesus take the Wheel by Carrie Underwood. The part He stressed to me was, Jesus take the wheel, because I can't do this on my own. In other words Jesus take over my mixed up and tumultuous life and straighten me out, PLEASE!

As I have said before I pray that God will walk before me and leave His footprints in the earth so that I can plainly see them and then be able to walk the path that He wants me to walk. This morning I had 3 separate dreams all intertwined and I believe He was showing me a path that I am destined to walk.

First I was to reinforce a wall that was in danger of falling down. After I stabilized the wall I was given the duty of building a shelf on that wall that was supposed to go the entire length of the wall and around the corner on to an adjacent wall. I couldn't build that shelf (which is I think a symbol for a bridge) because there were sections of the wall missing and those had to be rebuild first. That is when I awakened the first time.

When I fell back to sleep the dream continued only this time there was a crowd of people around me watching me intently as if waiting to see if I could do the job or would fail. I couldn't see any faces except that there were many different groups in the crowd. I noticed that I didn't have on regular clothing more like a robe or long shirt like a night shirt if you will and my cloths were in a pile off to the side and they had waves eminating from them and I sensed they were the filthy rags that we wear and they had been stripped from me and they were now being destroyed.

I'm telling you this because I believe that the LORD has something in store for each of us and that He is beginning to reveal what it is. I think all of us here are to bridge the gap that we have of different understandings. That we as a collective body are to take what each of us believe and really scrutinize it. I believe that we need to take it before the LORD and have Him show us the truth and then together we need to take the knowledge and share it with each other without any preconception. This way we get to openly discuss without prejugice what we think we know and then we can collectively as well as individually come to conclusions.

Just a thought, the third dream has me puzzled so maybe you can help me with it. I had dreams quite awhile ago about 2 couples and I was walking and talking to them about their faith. Any way fast forward a year the same couples recongnized me on the street and stopped to tell me how I had helped them and that they wanted to thank me again. And that they wanted to keep in touch with me and when I went into my wallet to pull out some business cards the cards were torn and tattered so worn that you couldn't make out the name or numbers any longer. I don't have a forboding about it but it just seems strange. Any ideas? Please be frank!
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All Glory goes to God Father, Son, & Holy Spirit,

Ariel ben Nissi

I rarely remember dreams and am always amazed at the clear recollection that some have of their dreams. Your dreams, Ariel, are very vivid, and I can see where you must be getting some sort of message from the LORD. May He make the meaning plain for you.

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Loving the LORD more every day

Hannah123aka Audrey

Last Edited on 17-Nov-2009 1:46 PM

This has really become more frequent ever since I left my old fellowship. Also since I started blogging here. It seems like I spend more time seeking answers from above.

Between what is written here and what is said at messianic meetings, I need to seek more understanding and maybe because of that God gives me more instruction, I don't know. I hope that I'm not being facetious when I speak out here. I am genuinely concerned for everyone not just myself. If I speak out of turn please correct me, because I sometimes become very zealous and I may speak out of turn.

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All Glory goes to God Father, Son, & Holy Spirit,

Ariel ben Nissi

Needless to say, I went right to the computer and explained that the billboard (which was Catholic, by the way) was absolutely correct. I quoted John 3:3 and 14:6 in the "letter to the editor." The paper (33K distribution) ran it. I received no rebuttal.

The paper doesn't like to get into "religious debate," so they say. They are worldly and have gone the way of the world's media, though still running a weekly religion page. They don't mind, however, polititcal bantering, but religious--no way. Running those lettes surprised me.

Just a note here to you, JF. I find you very interesting. Your opinion sways a little left and right from time to time, but I feel in all your heart is right, and you are a serious follower of the Messiah. Oh, and you can count on "being set straight" if you apeak out of turn on here! Ouch, ouch, ouch!

Oh, and who has a memory? If you find one, send it my way, please. (LOL)

In Him,
bill

Last Edited on 16-Nov-2009 3:12 PM

In our small group on Sunday a similar question came up and I would have to agree with my Pastor's answer. If the "message" you receive by dream or other method, is consistent with Scripture, then that is the Spirit in us, bringing to mind the answer from God's Word. If it is not consistent with Scriptural teaching, then we must disregard it.

Hope this helps

I am growing in Him - Joanne

In the worldwide church, there is a tendency to seek the blessings rather than the Blesser and that is dangerous if we spend too much time on that or as evidence for the walk of anyone.

Don't get me wrong, having the gifts of the Spirit is nice but if i have not love as Paul said in 1 Corinthians, i am nothing, too many of our contemporaries run from 1 Christian rally to a Christian concert to a prophetic event not realizing that all this time closeness to God and abiding in His Word prayerfully brings us His blessings and all the revalations we will ever need.

May our Sweet Lord Jesus bless you all in His Grace today

Serge

Last Edited on 17-Nov-2009 8:42 AM

I'm sorry I get confused by some of the things you say. What do you mean scripture is complete? Do you not believe as the Hebrews do that history and prophesy is circular?

Time is linear but as Solomon says paraphrased that history repeats itself. If that is true then dreams and history coupled with prophesy continue. Mark Twain said that history rhymes which means it may not be an exact repeat but it is close enough.

So by looking to the past we get a glimpse of the future, do you not think that dreams and prophesy play a role today in the modern Church?
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All Glory goes to God Father, Son, & Holy Spirit,

Ariel ben Nissi

Response:
What I mean is this - God no longer gives any new revelation, what He has given in His Word is complete, there are no more additions to be made. If someone gets a “message” that they think is from God, and it does not line up with Scripture or it is in addition to what is already in Scripture, then they can be sure that the message is not from God.

If, and this is only hypothetical, God were to give additional revelation, because it came from Him it would be equal to what He has said in Scripture and therefore should be added to it.

But Jude tells us that the faith, which is revealed in Scripture, has been delivered. Revelation 22 tells us that we are not to add or subtract anything from the book, which refers to Revelation and also the whole of Scripture. Because dreams, for the most part, cannot be supported by Scripture, they cannot be counted as messages from God.

Consider what Dr. John MacArthur has to say with regards to Jude 1:3 -

“Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.”

“the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.”
- “once delivered” - or “once for all” - “refers to something that is accomplished or completed one time, with lasting results and no need of repetition.

Through the Holy Spirit, God revealed the Christian faith to the apostles and their associates in the first century. Their New Testament writings, in conjunction with the Old Testament Scriptures, make up the “true knowledge” of Jesus Christ and are all that believers need for life and godliness. (2 Peter 1:3)

The authors of the NT did not discover the truths of the Christian faith through mystical religious experiences. Rather God, with finality and certainty, delivered His complete body of revelation in Scripture. Any system that claims new revelation or new doctrine must be disregarded as false. Gods Word is all-sufficient; it is all that believers need as they contend for the faith and oppose apostasy within the church.” (Dr. John MacArthur, MacArthur New Testament Commentary, 2 Peter & Jude)

There is prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled but it will only take place within the context of Scripture. There will be no extra “words” (by impression or audible words or dreams in addition to what has already been prophesied in Scripture. The role that prophecy plays in the church is to give believers a glimpse of what God has planned so that they can comfort and edify each other, be diligent to live godly lives, and to be on guard against error.

1 Thess 4:18 - Paul has just described the Rapture - “therefore comfort one another with these words.”

1 Thess 5:11 - Paul has just described the Day of the Lord - “therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.”

2 Peter 3: Peter has just described the destruction of the heavens and earth -
14 “Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,…
17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,
18but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity.”

Growing in Him - Joanne

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In the last days is important and visions and dreams are mentioned.

What do you think?

WLIJ

So what your saying is there can, "NOT" be any further uncovering of God's truth?

It plainly states in Joel 2:28-32 that I will pour out my spirit in the latter days. So you take that to mean that there can be no further So I would think that there will be even more knowledge of God's word being revealed now.

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All Glory goes to God Father, Son, & Holy Spirit,

Ariel ben Nissi

The first was a vision of me being tossed from an adult Sunday school class because I preached John 3:3. The vision came about EXACTLY as the Lord had given it to me a week or two earlier. It was like a slide (Remember them?) show, only moving.

The second was a reoccurring dream when my wife spouted threats of leaving me and taking our two daughters if I obeyed the calling of the Lord. "I know what it (serving Him) means. I will NOT be the wife of a preacher." She constantly and consistently repeated the threat.

One night I had a very vivid dream. I dream but don't remember them. Most are not vivid and are too stupid. However, this was neither. A voice came to me saying: "If you do not follow Me I will either take her life or separate you. Follow me." This occurred night after night for perhaps 3 days or more.

I told my wife of the dream. She said I was nuts. I put the seminary material in a drawer and put it on the bottom. When I opened the desk drawer it was on top. This repeatedly took place.

Bottomline: years later my wife left me and filed for divorce. She was being unfaithful and married again 4 months after the divorce. I reminded her of the dream, and said, "Be glad the Lord is gracious. You are still alive." She just looked away and said nothing.

Do I believe in "dreams" and "visions"? You bet I do, especially when the Holy Ghost is trying to get through to us and we ignore his voice in the day.

In the Lord,
bill

Was it from the LORD? Maybe. I hpe so. But dreams worry me because some people think that they have had visions from God, telling them things that just don't line up. The Angel Moroni appearing to Joseph Smith comes to mind, birthing the Mormon cult, or that there is really no Trinity. That is scary stuff and is not from the Holy Spirit.

So, again, I pray that the LORD will show you His true meaning, if the dream is from Him, Ariel. But be sure that it does indeed line up with scripture. God doesn't usually deal with fuzziness. He can make Himself very clear.

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Loving the LORD more every day

Hannah123aka Audrey

I have had plenty of dreams and I rarely remember any of them. Some come from the day's activities or conversations. Sometimes they come from this forum (LOL).

When one has a vision you'll know it. (Don't tire of this.) I was struggling with the call of the Lord and my ex was bearing down hard on me. All of me wanted to obey the Lord, excited to see what He might use me to do. She would have none of it! If one is faced with losing their family and home, it causes plenty of nightmares! But the Bible tells us we will know our Shepard's voice. And I did.

Only problem is, I didn't go to Bible school. It was after she left me and I found the beautiful woman I now have, full of the Spirit and having loved the Lord since a young child. What God takes away He give back in wonderful excess! Since meeting her 10 years ago all I do is take classes in the Bible and live for Christ.

When I went to my current spouse and told her the Lord was telling me to get into the prison ministry, she didn't scoff. "Be patient. He will provide you the right time, the right place, and the right people. I will pray, too." She did and received the confirmation. From her I was encouraged, and the Lord's Word was not questioned or second guessed.

Dreams? Who knows. Visions: pay close attention.

In Him,
bill

The dreams are coming more intensly. For instance last night I had dreams about different people from my distant past that I have not thought about for years. They were former bosses and employers, that the LORD prompted me to forgive for what they have done as far back as 40 years ago.

Then there was a person that I had not thought about for at least 6 or seven years that He prompted me to pray for. Never told me what to pray for but to pray in the spirit for the person and I did. I don't know what I prayed I just prayed as the LORD directed me.

This morning when my wife came out she had the same thing. The LORD prompted her to pray and forgive all the people that had done us wrong all over again, and then He directed her to release forgiveness to our family all over again so what that was all about we are not sure but she was just weeping, and all the junk that had transpired in the last 30 years flashed before her as the LORD reminded her of all that we had been through and all that He was doing behind the scenes for all these years.

What does this all mean? Is He planning a major move in our lives that is going to require extraordinary faith? Or is He planning on delivering us from the trials we are currently going through and wants us to remember to give Him the Glory? I don't know, but the outpouring is so strong!
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All Glory goes to God Father, Son, & Holy Spirit,

Ariel ben Nissi

No 1 What do you mean scripture is complete?

Answer: Genesis tells us how God started it all and Revelation tells us how He's going to put an end to it all so that we are restored to Him in eternity, the ALPHA and the OMEGA, the beginning and the end, Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

When we talk about the gift of prophecy nowadays, it is more about being able to give light to God's Word which is complete, 2 Timothy 3:16-17 in terms of Scripture.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works (2 Tim. 3:16-17)

Also in term of new gospels, i would also point to Paul' writing that says that if anyone preaches you a different gospel, let him be acursed.

A side comment: Time is a physical property that varies with mass, gravity and velocity and described by Einstein himself as being a stubbern and persistent illusion. In essence, yes, we are trapped in time here on earth but we are at the same time all eternal(eternal bliss or condemnation) which does not mean Lots a time but rather that eternity is the Absence of time.

No 2 So by looking to the past we get a glimpse of the future, do you not think that dreams and prophesy play a role today in the modern Church?

It depends, is it an emotional commitment to see visions or dreams or to want to hear God so much and to seek His blessings that we sometimes fall into the trap of running from place to place to have an spiritual high?

When you read Scripture, you can already see that the lives of the real prophets was NOT a walk in the park and on top of that, all of them had to be 100% acurately right all the time because 1 single error was seen as them not speaking for God and thus were killed, stoned to death. So when i see people today say that they have a word of the Lord for me, i run away, i believe that the Lord can and will speak through my own heart.

So my answer is if both enlighten the Whole counsel of God(Word of God, it might play a role of bringing glory to God but as long as people don't use these gifts to Lord over people or to boast about any powers, i believe in the Sovereignty of the Holy Spirit to give varied gifts to varied individuals to edify and unify the Church, i would be careful not to fall into the prophetic movements that are here now though.

Let me start from the top! So what are you saying about the Gospels?

Jesus plainly taught the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, and Paul taught the Gospel of Grace. Two distinctly different Gospels.

So define what you mean about being accursed! Jesus taught obedience to the "LAW." Paul taught by what you say the law was discontinued. So if they are one in the same Gospel then where is the discontinuing of the "LAW." Jesus did not do away with the law so then what Paul was teaching by your own words is a false Gospel?
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All Glory goes to God Father, Son, & Holy Spirit,

Ariel ben Nissi

Paul said this:

6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1:6-12)

Did i say that Paul taught a false gospel? By golly , no, i think Paul was inspired to write what he wrote and God still means that His Grace is sufficient and that the finished work at the cross is finished.

What we see in today's world is the same thing under the sun, a perverse generation who wants to see signs, wonders and miracles, WE WITNESS the same kind of hypocrisy by our contemporaries who can say that it will rain by looking at the sky but cannot discern the time we are living in.

Jesus blamed Jerusalem for not recognizing the time of her visitation, we are witnessing the same kind of unwareness today.

Today many so-called preachers are teaching falsehoods regarding the gospels and the avenue to heaven. They won't preach about homosexuality because of the bleeding hearts who think they "have rights" under the law. Whose law? Has to be man's: It certainly isn't God's! Many denominations also leave out of the Bible whatever they so desire.

And today's generation knows nothing about God or the Messiah who has already come. Many cults go knocking on doors peddling their falsehoods. We believerss must know our Bible inside out and face them. Many religious leaders--and that's all they are, religious--don't even believe in the Bible, or that Christ was the Messiah who was killed and rose from the dead. They don't know Him, and they don't understand Him because they don't know Him.

I keep pointing to the Ez. 38, 39 war where God destroys a massive army that is to get the attention of the Jews and the rest of the world.

OUR day is coming soon, my brother ... very soon.

In Christ Jesus,
bill

our Lord is on His way, we are seeing exactly the very same things, there is that pharisee spirit all around us, as long as people remained quiet in their religions, they kept quiet going about their businesses but now that people are waking up to the fact that they must have a relationship with Christ, it seems that it bothers that kind of spirit and i say bro, time to lift up the Son of Man like never before and no longer make excuses but rather to be bold and joyful for we have a Great and Mighty King and Father who will deliver us in the day of trouble!

PRAISE THE NAME OF YESHUA HA MASCHIACH!

We Christ followers must get the Word out. We can no longer sit on our fannies and say, "I hope someone does something." It's OUR job to do "something." We have sat too long.

The teens of today forsake the very church they are brought up in, and then kill themselves because they feel they have nothing to live for. Why do they not turn back to the Lord they grew up with blows my feeble mind! We have had several teens commit suicide lately.

The paper tells the story. A grieving family is bewildered. "She/he wouldn't talk to us." Then I find they did not attend a church, or did once and only on holidays.

We have an 18 year old granddaughter who wanted to come live with my wife and I. She was brought up in the A.G. church we attend while growing up. Went to a Baptist school in grade school. In high school her wordly mother didn't want to keep paying to send her to the Christian school and put her with the world. She is 18 now and does what she wants, she tells us. I tell her she wasn't brought up that way, and where was her faith?

"Where was God when I needed Him?" she states. "Where was he when I got raped?"

My answer was this: "You forsook Him. He did not forsaske you. You ran with the worldly, godless people ... and you still do despite the way they have treated you. You've been to their funerals. You know they went to hell because they chose the world over Christ. Sure, it's not easy to be a Christian. In fact, it's really tough sometimes. And none of us, not one, are perfect, or even good. But who does the worldly people point to--us!."

I tell her to get back to church, back to Christ, but she'd rather party with the world. The world is going to hell in a handbasket and can't figure out why! I have dealt with drug addicts; criminals; alcoholics, hookers, cultists ... you name it, but teens of today are a challenge all their own.

The world will go befoe the Most High God on the Great White Throne Judgment Day and not be able to utter one excuse. Grace will be gone. Forgiveness will be gone. There will be no salvation. Only judgement will remain, and eternity in hell.

I have walked the coals of hell and don't want ANYONE to feel that agony. I will not sit idly by while so many go to hell ... I will not!

In My Lord,
bill

Last Edited on 18-Nov-2009 7:21 PM

Ariel:
What does this all mean? ...I don't know, but the outpouring is so strong!

Response:
This is the work of the Spirit clearing the garbage/ the unforgiveness, out of your life so that you can have a closer walk with God. That may be all there is to it. The closer your walk, the better you will be able to handle whatever life throws at you.

Ariel:
So what your saying is there can, "NOT" be any further uncovering of God's truth?
It plainly states in Joel 2:28-32 that I will pour out my spirit in the latter days. So you take that to mean that there can be no further So I would think that there will be even more knowledge of God's word being revealed now.

Response:
What I am saying is that God’s truth has been revealed. As Serge has already quoted “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works” (2 Tim. 3:16-17). There is no need for any further revelation - everything God wants us to know is in “the Book.” We can uncover and clarify the truth that God has already given us but He will not add anything new to what He has already given.

The latter days in Joel are the times of the Tribulation. Read all of chapter 2 in context. I’ve covered what I found out about Joel 2 in my response to Laura.

Ariel,
Jesus plainly taught the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, and Paul taught the Gospel of Grace. Two distinctly different Gospels.

Response:
Actually I think they are one in the same. How does one become a member of the kingdom of God? (the spiritual kingdom that is) - through the Gospel of Grace.

Laura:
I took a closer look at Joel 2 and read a few commentators on it. First, the pouring out of the Spirit on Pentecost was a taste of what it will be like when the Spirit is released in His full power and work in Messiah’s millennial kingdom after the Day of the Lord. Secondly, the time period Joel is speaking about is the Tribulation and later, and there will be lots of dreams and visions then.

I came across an interesting bit of information regarding dreams and visions in Scripture. Dreams and visions were some of God’s most memorable means of revelation in the Old Testament. Their pictoral nature made them easily remembered. They were not limited to believers as people like Abimelech and Pharaoh had them. However, they were primarily reserved for the prophets. In the New Testament it was the apostles who were given them. Peter and Paul received all of the recorded visions and those events were not considered normal in biblical times. Most frequently they were used to reveal apocalyptic imagery (Ez., Dan., Zech., Rev).

As predicted in Joel 2, during the Tribulation, God will use visions and dreams. Because they were not considered normal and because it is only recorded in the New Testament that only Paul and Peter, who were apostles had them, I am thinking that they are not a normal thing for the present day church as well. I still don’t put much store in them.

Again if anyone has a dream they think is from God, it really needs to be compared to Scripture. God will not tell a person in their dream or vision to do something that goes against what He has stated in the Bible. And He Himself, will not do anything that goes against the principles that He has laid out in His Word. The Holy Spirit may bring to mind something from Scripture in a dream but that’s about as far as I can go with that because I just do not see Scriptural support for this concept at this time. I have to agree with Serge when he said "It depends, is it an emotional commitment to see visions or dreams or to want to hear God so much and to seek His blessings that we sometimes fall into the trap of running from place to place to have an spiritual high?"

Growing in Him - Joanne

Last Edited on 18-Nov-2009 9:16 PM

I somewhat disagree with you. Some commentators state that Joel 2:28 and following also pertains to the period after the Babylonian Captivity, but Joel actually talks about the festival of trumpets leading up to Yom Kippur and the fasting that is supposed to be done in conjunction with that day.

Some say it is after the war of Gog and Magog. Some say it is after the rapture of the church the talking of the bride and groom pertains to the 7 year tribulation or the 7 day feast of the marriage supper of the lamb in heaven just before the return of the bride groom and the bride to her home which would be earth.

At any rate we are in a period of increased prophesy, and increased awareness. God is pouring out His Spirit in a big, big way. Those that are in touch are hearing many things just as you and I should be getting more and more directives from the Holy Spirit on how we are to conduct our walk with Him. When we are on the blog here the Holy Spirit should be directing your responses and not so much your own personal head knowledge.

I find that the LORD is directing me to some of the commentaries and then as I read them He gives me an explanation like about the oven and the lamp. I didn't come up with that myself so all I can do is give credit to the Holy Spirit.

But as I said on Chucky's thread explain these.... I feel it is time to stop. We can go on and on but it solves nothing. I see it one way you see it another and so do many people here. As I said if your right then I'm in and I can't fall away. God's grace will deliver me as long as I have given myself to Him. However, if I'm correct and my feelings are right then doing what I'm doing by following Jesus's call to the kingdom way of life is just icing on the cake so to speak. I may get an extra crown or two, or maybe a minor judgeship in the new kingdom who knows. LOL

At any rate we are to follow in Jesus' footsteps and follow His commands if we love Him and since I love Him I will continue to follow what I feel He is directing me to do. I enjoy the pomp and circumstance of the festivals, and I enjoy Shabbos. I enjoy the rituals of prayers and the song of the Torah. Does it gaurantee me a place in heaven no that is only obtained by faith in Jesus Christ, but I enjoy the structure, and the discipline.

As I said I'm taking some time off to seek God's face and what He has in store for me. I have many questions that I'm not getting answers for and I have some personal issues I need to deal with so when I get what I need I may be back. God Bless!
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All Glory goes to God Father, Son, & Holy Spirit,

Ariel ben Nissi

Exegesis tells us that Jesus is the Son of God but that He is also the Almighty, one cannot express exegesis solely using a few verses to suit their own interpretations but rather look at all Scriptures and then let the Scriptures say what they have to say.

Serge

We can expect, howevr, as we advance thrugh the last days, that the Devil will do his utmost to pull many away from the truth (and refuting the Trinity is one of those machinations), so we must indeed be bold in defense of Jesus! To deny His Deity is to deny Him!
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Loving the LORD more every day

Hannah123aka Audrey

I have no problem with women being evangelists, missionaries or working in the many other facets of Christ's work. The Bible clearly states women should not shephard a church. However, when the men do not step up, then Christ will fill those shoes as He must. ... And that could be with women.

I passed four churches in my city the other day and all of them had women pastors. At first I grumbled to myself, but not that they were pastors in as much as the denomination has fallen so far from Charles and John's plantings and vision of the Methodist Church.

I heard a woman preacher the other night on TV butcher the Word so bad I wanted to toss my slipper at the stupid tube! I don't care whether one is male or female, get it correct! I'm sorry, but there are too many "translations" out there today. Many of them the unbelievers find "easy to read." Come on! If Christ wanted it easy He wouldn't have spoken in parables.

I use the New King James a lot, but when push comes to shove, so to speak, I grab my King James. Outside of having a Greek/Hebrew writing, it's the best.

One cannot blame just translations for the stupid kind of preaching that goes on Sunday mornings. It's little wonder the churches of mainline denominations are closing like bars during the millinium.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If one "can't figure [it] out, tune into The Stream and/or get on here.

Luther is undoubtedly disappointed in the way his Reformation turned out. I know John and Charles Westley are upset. No one would sit beside Charles because they would get knocked down by the power of the Holy Ghost in him.

Today people won't sit beside someone because they are not in their money class, or they don't drive a fancy car, or own a business. Hogwash! Where is their first love? Perhaps they have never "found it." But they never will in those empty tombs they today call churches!

Sorry I'm "preachy" here but Audrey got me going. (I'll blame sweet her!)LOL! It's true, all so very true, Audrey. The mainline churches today have tossed Christ out. He's there in name only. Empowered by the Holy Ghost is so foreign it can't be described.

When I took over a Methodist teen class there were two young people, the pastor's son and a school board member's daughter. These kids--including the pastor's!--did not know the basic stories of the Bible: Samson, Abraham, the tiff between Moses, Pharoah and God, David and Goliath ... I couldn't believe it.

When the pastor took me out of the class because I would not teach the Methodist propaganda drivel and taught the Bible only, the Holy Spirit had planted 13, 14 hungry young people in that class by that time. They said if I left they would too. It wasn't me, brothers and sisters, it was the hunger for the Word! And today the U.S. society has tossed God aside. Little wonder the churches have, too.

In the prison ministry the prisoners come down when I'm in there because I give them the word. I have a Metodist partner. He's flat out boring. I cut no corners, and they know it. It's not pathetic me! It's because the Holy Ghost is feeding them, albeit through my hand, He's feeding them! And they hunger and thirst.

Todays churches would toss me out on my fat ear! (Blame this on Audrey. LOL)

In Christ,
Bill

Last Edited on 9-Dec-2009 1:03 PM

Last Edited on 10-Dec-2009 12:19 PM

Bill

Daniel, I just don't understand how you can be so blind to this. So I will simply pray that the Almighty will show you that your "encounter" cannot be of God if it goes against His Word.

Heavenly Father, let the scales fall off the spiritual eyes of our friend, Daniel, so that he may see the Truth - that Jesus - Emmanuel - that is, God with us, took human form to be able to be the ultimate sacrifice for our salvation and thus be worthy to open the Book of Judgment. We see Daniel's love for You, LORD, and ask You, in Your perfect Will, to open his eyes. We ask this in the Name of Jesus, our Messiah, Amen

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Loving the LORD more every day

Hannah123aka Audrey

In Christ's love,
bill

Daniel, it does not matter if i had been a roman catholic all my life as Bill said, exegesis tells us that Jesus is God, either you believe the Scriptures in their entirety or you don't, it is that simple, either you take God's Word seriously or you make Him a liar, the Bible teaches that God is One who manifests Himself in 3 persons and still is One God, not me says it, the Bible teaches us something bigger than our Finite minds can comprehend but still, Jesus is eternal and more than just a brother for He claims to be the Almighty, He was crucified for making Himself to be equal with God, He often said: My words...