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Apostasy

Joanne
851 posts
Nov 04, 2009
10:38 AM
previously posted)

What is apostasy? According to the dictionary it is:
1. a falling away
2. a political defection
3. a religious defection
4. a secession from the Church and a disowning of the name of Christ
5. the act of a professed Christian who knowingly and deliberately rejects revealed truth regarding the deity of Christ and redemption
6. apostates can only be professors and not actual possessors of true salvation
Note - there is a difference between a “professor” and a “possessor.” A professor comes close but never makes an actual commitment, a possessor has made the commitment and is a true believer.

Biblical references:

1. 1 Timothy 4:1 - “but the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith”

“fall away” - it is a stronger term meaning more than just straying; it is a purposeful, deliberate departure from a former position. The same word is used when Jesus tells the parable of the seed that falls on the thin soil with rock beneath. The seed springs up but because there is no deep root and when the sun comes up, the plant soon withers. This is compared to a person who hears the Word, seems to accept it but eventually turns their back on it.

Examples of these are Judas, Demas, false disciples mentioned in John 6:66

2. Hebrews 6:4-5 - “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come…”

Note - this passage makes no reference to salvation
“Those who were once enlightened “ - none of the normal New Testament terminology to refer to being saved is used here (born again, made righteous, made holy). In fact none of the terminology used here is used elsewhere in the NT to refer to being saved (enlightened, tasted, partakers)

“enlightened” - refers to the intellectual perception of spiritual truth, not a belief in that truth: it means to be aware of, to be instructed in or to be informed of.
Isaiah 9:1-2 - “the people who were sitting in darkness saw a great light” - not everyone who saw the light accepted or believed in it.

“Tasted of the heavenly gift” - the gift is that of Christ; there are some who only taste or sample the gift but do not consume it; there is a difference.

Jesus stated in John 6:51 “I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever” What did Jesus say here? "eat" not taste.

“Partakers” - this has to do with association not possession; a sharing of common associations and events

Example - we all go to the same church picnic and share in the food, fellowship & games offered; that is association). The Bible never speaks of the Holy Spirit as associating with Christians but rather indwelling them, living in them.

“Tasted” - what? “The good Word of God” - they had been taught about God, probably at church, had listened and thought about what they heard and may have even responded with enthusiasm. But could they say “Thy words were found and I ate them and Thy words became for me a joy and the delight of my heart” - Jeremiah 15:16.

“Some may have come forward for acceptance and even filled out a salvation card, but they never came under obedience, they never took God in…they were never under Jesus as Lord. They tried to make salvation something that is acceptable to them through their own works. But they bear no fruit, no discipleship.” (sorry, I forget where this quote came from)

It works like a vaccination. Apostates have been exposed to the Gospel and got enough of it to immunize themselves against it. This shows an evil heart of unbelief - John 3:18 - "...but he that believeth not is condemned already because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

There are many in churches, who, though they “know” about Christ have not become a possessor of Him. A good portion of Scripture which tells us about this is:

Matthew 7:15-23 - “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."

I believe the following article shows the perfect picture of an apostate.

Charles Templeton - The Slippery Slide to Unbelief

“Following is the sad account of the life of a once prominent and successful evangelist, his slide into unbelief and his rejection of Christianity. In 1996, the book Farewell to God was published for all the world to see the author, Charles Templeton claims:
‘I oppose the Christian Church because, for all the good it sometimes does, it presumes to speak in the name of God and to propound and advocate beliefs that are outdated, demonstrably untrue, and often, in their various manifestations, deleterious to individuals and to society.’
As this story unfolds, you will see the devastating results of compromising man’s theories with God’s Word, beginning in Genesis.

Who is Charles Templeton? Fuelled by concern about the spiritual state of post-depression youth, mass evangelism exploded onto the American scene in the 1940s. Thousands of young servicemen and civilians streamed to arenas to see the programs, which included preaching, music, and various acts. One of the leaders in this movement was a young man from Canada, Charles Templeton, born in 1915. He was generally acknowledged to be the most versatile of the new young evangelists. Templeton soon rose to prominence, even surpassing another dynamic young preacher, Billy Graham. In 1946, he was listed among those best used of God by the National Association of Evangelicals.

As the pastor of the rapidly growing Avenue Road Church in Toronto, which he had started with only his family and a few friends, Templeton also became one of three vice-presidents of the newly-formed Youth For Christ International organization in 1945. He then nominated his good friend, Billy Graham, to be field evangelist for the new ministry. Templeton, Graham, and a few others regularly spoke to thousands, winning many to Christ both in America and in Europe. Newspapers and magazines carried reports of his meetings informing readers he was winning 150 converts a night…

However, despite his popularity and seeming success as an evangelist, all was not well with Charles Templeton. The more he read, the more he found he was beginning to question the essentials of the Christian faith, because he could no longer believe God’s Word beginning with Genesis. In a conversation with Billy Graham concerning Templeton’s desire to attend Princeton Theological Seminary, Templeton stated:

‘But, Billy, it’s simply not possible any longer to believe, for instance, the biblical account of creation. The world wasn’t created over a period of days a few thousand years ago; it has evolved over millions of years. It’s not a matter of speculation; it’s demonstrable fact.’

Templeton warned Graham that it was ‘intellectual suicide’ to not question the Bible and to go on preaching God’s Word as authoritative. With this background of doubt about God’s Word welling up inside, and lacking any type of formal education, he decided to pursue a degree in theology at Princeton Theological Seminary.…

Rather than assuage his doubts by providing sound theological answers for the questions he had concerning the authority of the Bible, the historical veracity of Genesis and the deity of Christ, Princeton only served to increase his qualms. This is not surprising, considering the influences that had infiltrated Princeton through people like Charles Hodge and B.B. Warfield concerning one’s approach to the Scripture in Genesis. For instance, Hodge….accepted the millions of years and rejected literal creation-days…Warfield went further and, unlike Hodge, even accepted Darwinism. Templeton, like generations of others, was taught at Princeton to reject parts of Genesis in favour of man’s beliefs concerning such things as billions of years.

After graduating from Princeton, Templeton accepted a position with the National Council of Churches, conducting preaching missions across the United States and Canada. However, he faced increasing health problems, specifically frequent chest pains. He visited a specialist in Pennsylvania who encouraged him, after finding nothing wrong with his heart, to clear up the conflict in his life—namely the doubts he harboured about the authority of the Bible from which he so fervently preached to thousands each night.

This reminds of another who suffered illness because of a great conflict in his life regarding teaching that undermined God’s Word…. Charles Darwin…. It has been said that inner conflict, because of knowing that evolution would wipe the idea of God from the minds of millions, contributed greatly to Darwin’s psychosomatic illness.

Templeton’s struggles affected others, too. As Templeton wrestled with the ‘demonstrable fact’ of evolution which made it impossible for him to believe ‘the biblical account of creation, he sought out his close friend, Billy Graham. This caused Graham as well to grapple with tough questions that shook the very roots of the faith he professed and preached daily—namely, ‘was the Bible completely true?’

With ‘science’ pulling Templeton one way and the Bible seemingly pulling him in an altogether different direction, he resigned from his position with the National Council of Churches and took over the Department of Evangelism of the Presbyterian Church USA. At the same time, he hosted a CBS TV series, called Look Up and Live.

Finally, however, the doubts about everything he stood for became too great and he decided to leave the ministry. In his autobiography, Farewell to God, Charles Templeton lists his ‘reasons for rejecting the Christian faith’. Most of these relate to the origins issue and thus the accuracy of the book of beginnings—
...Anthropologists who say that ‘our earlier ancestors did not suddenly appear fully formed, but were anthropoid creatures who lived on the earth millions of years ago.
...Geneticists who say it is ‘nonsense’ to believe that the ‘reason for all the crime, poverty, suffering, and general wickedness in the world’ is sin.
...Geologists who say ‘there is no evidence whatsoever of a worldwide flood’ as told in Genesis.
...The ‘fables’ (in Genesis 1 and 2) which have ‘remained the grounds of Christian theology across the centuries.
...Those Christians who ‘reject any advance in science or learning that contradicts the Genesis account of the creation of the world, the disobedience of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and God’s curse on the world and humankind...and who believe that the only deliverance from this curse and eventual banishment to an eternal hell is to be ‘born again.’

...Templeton, like Charles Darwin, had a big problem understanding how one could reconcile an earth full of death, disease, and suffering with the God of the Bible.
Templeton states:
...'How could a loving and omnipotent God create such horrors as we have been contemplating? Is it not foolish to close one’s eyes to the reality that much of the Christian faith is simply impossible to accept as fact? Should one continue to base one’s life on a system of belief that—for all its occasional wisdom and frequent beauty—is demonstrably untrue?

...Templeton concludes:
‘I believe that there is no supreme being with human attributes—no God in the biblical sense—but that all life is the result of timeless evolutionary forces … over millions of years. I believe that, in common with all living creatures, we die and cease to exist as an entity.'

Those in the Church who compromise with the idea of an old earth (billions of years) cause those they come in contact with to stumble as Templeton did. If the earth is billions of years old—there is no loving God as the Bible portrays! Templeton completed his slide to unbelief by stating that the ‘entire resurrection story is not credible.

Templeton also ignored the answers evangelicals provided to many of the other ‘problems’ with the Christian faith, just as he did with the creation-related topics. One must wonder whether he truly wanted answers.

After leaving the ministry in 1957, Templeton took a prominent place in journalism.... and is the author of twelve books. Templeton died on 7 June 2001 aged 85, and sadly had suffered from Alzheimer’s towards the end.

Templeton (unlike many Christian leaders in the Church today) is consistent. He recognizes that if you can’t trust the Bible in areas of science (geology, biology, astronomy, etc.), then you can’t trust it in areas of morality and salvation either. As Jesus said: ‘If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?’ (John 3:12). As more and more people in the compromising churches become consistent in how they approach the Bible, having accepted man’s teachings concerning millions of years, more will wake up one day and say with Charles Templeton:
‘Is it not foolish to close one’s eyes to the reality that much of the Christian faith is simply impossible to accept as fact? Should one continue to base one’s life on a system of belief that—for all its occasional wisdom and frequent beauty—is demonstrably untrue?’

And the end result, the anti-gospel - the message of hopelessness for a dying world — the bottom of the ‘slippery slide’?

Full article - http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/291

Growing in Him - Joanne

jonzy
927 posts
Nov 04, 2009
10:58 PM
dear neighbour, thank you for the re-read.______if this man had the simple thought's of a child of GOD, would he have been as conflicted in his inner-being/soul+spirit ??????, i-daniel, humbly think 'not'._____with love\peace/understanding\hope for all the neighbours.....daniel....p.s. thank you also for the re-read of -John chap.6, for how else does one keep the words of 6:66, in context?????-___humbly i ask all tooore-read psalm 19, with focus on verse 8.
Dr Leakey
435 posts
Nov 04, 2009
11:08 PM
WOW...this templeton guy has nailed this one. All of you should read this. He asks very good questions,just like the ones i ask you. Excellent reading!
jesusfreak1849
168 posts
Nov 05, 2009
8:34 AM
Joanne,
"And the end result, the anti-gospel - the message of hopelessness for a dying world — the bottom of the ‘slippery slide’?"

Isn't this what the world wants? It wants us to be separated from God and not have any connection to a higher power than the people who think they know what is best? If God cares for us and God keeps watch over us then they are not the final authority God is and that then makes them nothing more than human themselves. They are no longer in charge but something greater than man is running the show.

Morals come into play and where there are morals there are absolutes, nothing is now relative. Which I find to be a total farce anyway because in science and math there are absolutes therefore the idea of there not being an absolute truth is unthinkable. Absolutes are basic to the laws of the universe whether college professors believe that or not.
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All Glory goes to God Father, Son, & Holy Spirit,

Ariel ben Nissi

Serge
1690 posts
Nov 05, 2009
9:12 AM
This Templeton guy was just deceived, that's all...
Joanne
858 posts
Nov 05, 2009
9:30 PM
Doc L:
Isn't this what the world wants? It wants us to be separated from God and not have any connection to a higher power than the people who think they know what is best?

Response:
True. But the people who think they know what's best really do not. They are deceived.

Doc L:
If God cares for us and God keeps watch over us then they are not the final authority God is and that then makes them nothing more than human themselves. They are no longer in charge but something greater than man is running the show.

Response:
Yes something greater than man is running the show. And that is God and He is the final authority. Man first fell because He questioned God and His authority. It's the same today as it was 6000 years ago. As I said man is deceived.

Morals and God

Last Edited on Nov 5, 2009 9:31 PM

Laura
711 posts
Nov 06, 2009
9:31 AM
Joanne, you put dr. l name where Jf had answered you.
Just wanted you to check it.

wliJ

jesusfreak1849
176 posts
Nov 06, 2009
10:48 AM
Wow,

Something we finally agree on, Hallelujah!
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All Glory goes to God Father, Son, & Holy Spirit,

Ariel ben Nissi

bill
910 posts
Nov 06, 2009
12:24 PM
Dr. L. is gonna go to hell quoting atheists. Mercy!

I love that preacher, Joanne. Thanks. Listen to him on the radio a lot.

bill

hannah123
518 posts
Nov 08, 2009
10:16 AM
As a former Catholic, I didn't get to hear much from these teachers.

Thanks for the post, Joanne.

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Loving the LORD more every day

Hannah123aka Audrey

Joanne
861 posts
Nov 08, 2009
6:46 PM
Thanks Laura - when both are posting I got confused.
My response was for jesus freak.

Doc Leakey, the example of Charles Templeton was given to show that not everyone who says they are a Christian truly is. And not everything done in the name of Christianisty in times past really was.

Joanne


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