In this post I will post some scripture I have to support my interpretation that there will be a "taking/snatching/rapture up of the church".

1. Church Is Kept From The Hour Of Testing:

Rev 3:10 Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.

1 Thes. 1:10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delievers us from the wrath to come.

Matt 3:7...he said to them, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?...

Chris, I hope against hope of the Word of our Lord Yeshua, that we are spared the wrath. I hope you are unable to refute my scriptural findings with your findings... :).

I hope any and all will join in our posting of scripture supporting our interpretations of trib periods.

I have a booklet that breaks down the support of the Rapture into 5 different topics. I will post each topic one at a time, as my time allows.

Yours in Yeshua,
Mary

Last Edited on 26-Jun-2009 1:16 PM

booklet by Fred Overton

Pg. 62 Five Reasons For The Rapture Of The Church

1. The Tribulation Saints Are Overcome (Rev. 13:7)
(Church not overcome Matt 16:18)

2. The Tribulation Is Referred To As "The Time Of Jacob's Trouble" (Jer. 30:7)
The church is not Jacob

3. The Church Is Mentioned Then Left Out Of Phrase
To The Church:(Rev.2:7, Rev. 2:11, Rev. 2:17, Rev. 2:29, Rev. 3:6, Rev. 3:13, Rev. Rev. 3:22)
To Anyone: (Rev. 13:9)

4. The Church Is Kept From The Hour Of Testing
(in first post)

5. The Church Is Not In The Seventy Weeks Of Daniel
(Dan. 9:24-27)
This prophecy is for Israel and not the church

Last Edited on 26-Jun-2009 4:18 PM

1. The church in the book of Revelation appears in chapter 2 and chapter 3 where He writes letters to the church. Then at the end of chapter 3 He finishes with the idea that He stands at the door and knocks ready to come. From there we move right into chapter 4 and the church is in heaven.

And the church is in heaven in chapter 5. In chapter 6, the Tribulation breaks out on earth and from chapter 6 through 18, the whole story of the Tribulation, there's never one mention of the church. I think that is a rather significant fact.

2. There is an absolute absence of instruction, in the New Testament, for the church concerning how to endure the Tribulation. Consider in Matthew 24 there are no warnings given to the church about the Tribulation and how to live through it. In fact, the only church mentioned during that period is called the mystery harlot, Babylon, the prostitute, the false church which is to be destroyed.

3. The Rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4 where we're caught up to be with the Lord in the air and ever are we with the Lord. It’s rather senseless if it happens at the Second Coming. Why bother to go up and come right back down again? Why does Paul make such a great point about the Rapture if that's all there is to it?

4. If all the believers are raptured up at the Second Coming and come back with Him, who's left on earth alive to populate the Kingdom? If He comes down and raptures all the redeemed and all the unredeemed are destroyed (as Scripture tells us), there's nobody left on earth to populate the Kingdom except spiritually glorified beings. There have to be people to produce a whole generation, many of whom will not even believe and will start a rebellion at the end. That fact is clearly stated in Revelation. If the Rapture occurs at the same time as the Second Coming, then all the redeemed are gone, all the unredeemed are destroyed, and there's nobody left to populate the Kingdom.

5. Revelation 3:10 - "Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth."

That's a promise to those who have kept the Word of God by faith in Christ that they will be rescued from out of that period of time.

Growing in Him - Joanne

Watching the developments in the Middle East in the news every day, I am reminded how current the Bible is!!! We are truly seeing prophecy fulfilled before our very eyes/

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Loving the LORD more every day

Hannah123aka Audrey

Last Edited on 30-Jun-2009 7:13 PM

PRE-TRIB RAPTURE ARGUMENT NUMBER 1:

God is a loving God and would NEVER allow his children to suffer through the great tribulation. Hence, we will be leaving through the rapture before it occurs.

ANSWER:

God has always been and will always be a loving God. In fact, He is love (1 John 4:8; 4:16), but we must NOT misuse this attribute of His or misunderstand that He is also an infinite and eternal God, whose ways and thoughts are not like ours:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isa 55:8,9)

Also, remember that God has allowed His most devoted servants to suffer incredibly in this life, even up to the point of martyrdom like John the Baptist, Steven, James and Antipas. Moreover, many prophets of God were killed by Jezebel in her day (1 Kings 18:4, 13). But most noteworthy is how the Father allowed His only begotten son, Jesus of Nazareth, to suffer horribly and then die on the cross for all of mankind. God's love permitted all of that to happen and will also allow for the last generation of saints to face the antichrist.

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PRE-TRIB RAPTURE ARGUMENT NUMBER 2:

Jesus promised the church the following:

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. (Rev 3:10)

Jesus said, He'd keep Christians from this hour of trial coming on the whole earth. Hence, Christians will be delivered from the tribulation period.

ANSWER:

The Greek word found in Rev.3:10 and translated keep you from is also found at John 17:11 and 17:15 and can mean keep through. This is what will happen, if we are the generation of saints to face the antichrist -- we will be kept through that horrible time, that is, as long as we do our part for God to continue to keep us, as the Scriptures declare. See Rev. 13:10 and 14:12.

Also remember that the prophet Daniel went into the lion's den and the three Hebrew men -- Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego -- went into Nebuchadnezzar's blazing furnace! God did not keep them from such a severe life or death test.

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PRE-TRIB RAPTURE ARGUMENT NUMBER 3:

After Rev. 4:1, we read no more of the church. God said to John, come up here, which symbolizes the rapture and the end of the Church age, which means Christians are not going through the tribulation. That verse reads:

After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." (Rev 4:1)

ANSWER:

While we might not see the word church after the point of Rev. 4:1 in the book of Revelation, we still read of it with the term saints, which comprise the church. For example, we read:

He [the antichrist] was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. (Rev 13:7)

If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints. (Rev 13:10)

A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus. (Rev 14:9-12)

So while it is true that the word church is not found after Rev. 4:1, a synonym for it certainly is!

Also, it was to John alone that God spoke the words come up here. To give a symbolic interpretation to any Scripture, which you are doing to say that phrase means the rapture, can lead to many strange, weird and unsound teachings. But those same words come up here are also found in another place in Revelation:

Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on. (Rev 11:12)

Those words were spoken to the two witnesses of Rev. 11, who were killed by the antichrist and clearly cannot refer to the rapture, as some try to make it mean in Rev. 4:1.

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PRE-TRIB RAPTURE ARGUMENT NUMBER 4:

Lot was taken out of Sodom before it was destroyed and Noah was in the ark before the flood. Scripture says:

Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. (Luke 17:26-30)

Hence, Christians will likewise be delivered, as Noah and Lot were, through the rapture.

ANSWER:

While some might look at Lk. 17:26-30 and see the righteous being delivered (and in part it is referring to that), that passage is primarily emphasizing that the wicked will be destroyed by God's judgment. The wicked people living during Noah's day and Lot's day were oblivious to the immediate danger they were in and continued to live an ordinary kind of life, without repentance of their sins and turning to God. Hence, they were all destroyed when God's judgment came. Notice the rest of the context of that passage:

On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lot's wife! Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left. "Where, Lord?" they asked. He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather." (Luke 17:31-37)

The disciples asked where they were taken. Jesus answered by referring to their dead bodies and vultures being gathered there! That refers to the wicked people, not the righteous. Notice the parallel passage in Matthew's gospel:

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. (Mat 24:37-44)

The wicked were taken away by the flood, which killed them.

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PRE-TRIB RAPTURE ARGUMENT NUMBER 5:

Finally, notice that Jesus will come at an hour we do not expect him, Mat. 24:44. If He was coming at some time other than pre-trib, we would know when He was coming. Hence, the rapture can happen at any moment and must be pre-trib.

ANSWER:

There are other Scriptures that must be examined besides the one saying that He will come at an hour we do not expect Him, such as the following one:

But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. (Mark 13:24-27, KJV)

According to this Scripture, the gathering of the elect from earth to heaven (the rapture) cannot happen until first there is a radical change in the way we currently view the sun, moon and stars -- which means it cannot happen before this event occurs! Furthermore, that change will occur after the tribulation, according to the Lord Jesus.

PRE-TRIB RAPTURE ARGUMENT NUMBER 6:

In Luke 21:36, Jesus taught:

Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.

So we will escape the horrible things that will happen on the earth through the rapture.

ANSWER:

What the saints will escape, according to that verse, is what comes after the rapture, which is the wrath of God. The saints will be delivered from the wrath of God, but not from the antichrist during the tribulation. Again, the tribulation is not the wrath of God.

(The next pre-trib rapture argument is similar to this one.)

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PRE-TRIB RAPTURE ARGUMENT NUMBER 7:

The tribulation is the wrath of God. The saints are delivered from the wrath of God, according to various Scriptures, so the rapture must happen before the tribulation.

ANSWER:

It is true that the saints will be delivered from the wrath of God, but it is not true that the tribulation is the wrath of God. There are no Scriptures to back that up. Furthermore, the wrath of God begins at the overlapping point of Rev. 11:18 and Rev. 6:17, which is after the tribulation. The saints will go through the painful things cited before that point, but not the wrath of God. Notice those Scriptures:

The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great--and for destroying those who destroy the earth. (Rev 11:18)
For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand? (Rev 6:17)

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PRE-TRIB RAPTURE ARGUMENT NUMBER 8:

The church will depart before the antichrist is revealed:

For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. (2 Thess. 2:7,8)

ANSWER:

If we back up to the beginning of the chapter we read at v. 3 the following about the day of the Lord or the gathering of the saints to heaven (the rapture):

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, (2 Thess. 2:3, NASB)

Very clearly that verse contradicts the pre-trib interpretation of verses 7 and 8, because two events must precede the gathering of the saints to heaven (the rapture): (1) apostasy and (2) the revealing of the antichrist. In other words, verses 7 and 8 can't be the rapture, for the event stated there happens before the rapture. Take a close look at verses 1-3:

Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, (2 Thess. 2:1-3)

How then should we view verses 7 and 8? What will be taken out of the way BEFORE the antichrist is revealed? It has to be the restraining power of the Holy Spirit, since the saints will be here to face the antichrist, as shown in this chapter and elsewhere in Scripture.

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PRE-TRIB RAPTURE ARGUMENT NUMBER 9:

I'm going up before the tribulation. If you want to stay around you can but I'm leaving.

ANSWER:

All Christians will leave the earth at the point of the rapture, regardless their position on the timing of the rapture. In fact, even the Christians who believe there will be no rapture will also go up at that point in time. So no one is getting out of here through the rapture merely because he wants to go!

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PRE-TRIB RAPTURE ARGUMENT NUMBER 10:

The rapture is mentioned at 1 Thess. 4:16-18. After it is mentioned we are told to "encourage" each other with those words. If we had to go through the tribulation that wouldn't be encouraging, but instead discouraging!

ANSWER:

If we start reading a few verses before v. 16, we can easily see what we are to encourage other Christians about:

Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words. (1 Thess. 4:13-18)

According to that passage, Paul didn't want the Christians to grieve like the rest of (unsaved) mankind, who have no hope. The encouraging truth stated there is that living Christians will be with their departed loved ones who died in the Lord once again. The reunion will occur at the rapture. The unsaved people, on the other hand, have no such hope. Again, in contrast, Christians should not grieve like the rest of mankind. Hence, we can encourage one another with these words.

In Conclusion

Many fine Christians have only been presented one view of the rapture and that has been the pre-trib view. It may come as a surprise to them to learn that the Bible really teaches a post-trib rapture. Though this truth may be disturbing, please know that it is always best to know the truth. Christians living in the final generation will have to face great persecution and hardships. They must not take the mark of beast or they will lose their salvation. Sadly, many Christians will fall away (Matt. 24:9,10 cf. 2 Thess. 2:3) during the last generation of this age. To overcome the devil, note the following Scripture:

They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. (Rev 12:11)

Many will overcome by dying martyrs at that time (Rev. 7:9-17) and that will occur before the rapture (Rev. 20:4-6).

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Last Edited on 2-Jul-2009 1:39 PM

Chris, what does BUMP mean? Is this a Canadian term I am not familiar with?

Chris,I am sorry to say this (and this statement is not directed at you but the author of your post above), but when I see an interpretation of scripture or a position of understanding beginning with:

Is 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the Lord.

This is the author of the interpretation speaking, not God.

Any person who has to begin an interpretation of scripture with this post is saying that their interpretation does NOT RECONCILE THE SUM TOTAL OF SCRIPTURE TOGETHER. This person is saying, you can't understand God, nor can you understand my interpretation because it probably doesn't stand with all of scripture. The person presenting the interpretaion needs this scripture because their interpretaion does not represent all of scripture and is telling the other students that they should just blindly accept their teaching.

Sorry to say this but this author, prefacing their interpretation with Is. does not automatically make it right.

Yes, God's ways are higher and His thoughts are higher but He gives us His Word and The Holy Spirit to understand Him. If we can't understand God than why would He have bothered to come to earth as a man to keep up the pretense?

We can understand God. God is LOVE.

I am praying and studying over your post and will post some follow up.

Yours in Yeshua,
Mary

Even though I did not care for the articles preface, I did think their were some good points within.

If you care to proceed with this study, can we pick one specific point to start with?

There is one topic within this study that I have heard that Theologians think is a good starting point.

1. Jesus comes in His Shekina Clouds of Glory, not to earth.

2. Jesus returns to earth.

I have heard that this a good starting point to reconcile the scriptures for the Rapture discussion.

Is this clear? What I am saying is there are two schools of thought"

1. Jesus comes in the clouds but not to earth. (We meet the Lord in the air.)

2. Jesus returns to earth. (Jesus return to earth but no mention of us meeting Him in the clouds then coming down with him.)

Chris, if you would rather start with another topic, like "the tribulation is not the wrath" that's ok also. I thought that was an interesting point.

Hasten Your Coming Lord!
Mary

Last Edited on 5-Jul-2009 9:13 AM

First time He does not set foot on the earth. Second time He does to rule with all the saints. Hey, we who are saved have a wonderful future.

In My King and Lord,
Bill

Yes, I agree there is a distinction between God/Jesus,

1. Coming in the clouds, not touching earth, you posted above:

(1 Thess 4:13-18) 1 Thess 4:17 then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to mett the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.

2. And God/Jesus touching earth:

Rev. 14:1 Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb,...
Rev. 19:11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True,...

Bill, as I read (Rev 20:4-5) It reads to me, that only the trib saints reigh with Christ during the mill.

My humble interpretation,
Mary

Last Edited on 7-Jul-2009 5:41 AM

I'm not sure that only the Trib saints will reign with Christ during the Millennium, because of the following passages:

1 Cor. 6:3 "Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?"

Luke 22:30 "...that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

Dan.7:22 "...until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom."

I know that these passages are not definitive, but they strike me as likely that all saints (OT, NT and trib saints) will rule on earth. But it's just my personal opinion, of course.

As for the LORD coming in the clouds for His saints at the Rapture, I read an intersting comment from Joseph Chambers as to why He comes to get us (as opposed to waiting for us up in Heaven). Since Satan is the prince of the world and the air, the LORD escorts us through Satan's domain so we won't be subject to attack. Interesting thought, isn't it?

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Loving the LORD more every day

Hannah123aka Audrey

I cannot say for sure about this subject of who reigns as the mill saints. I believed as you until I read that passage in Rev. then I thought perhaps it is only the trib. saints. I will study on with your passages in mind. I surely do not know for sure :).

The remark by Chambers on Christ's help is, indeed interesting. I pray for Yeshua's help everyday and certainly am glad to know of any and all of His help!

Look at this passage that came to my mind about Chambers statement:

Col 2:15 He disarmed the principalities and powers and made a public example of them, triumphing over them in him.

I read this to mean, Christ conquered these powers during his life and resur. on earth. What do you think? I've read this passage along with 1 Cor 15:24-28. I believe this reads as the last enemy was death. Christ conquered this enemy with His resur. And now, as I understand, greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world. We though Christ's Spirit already have power over the enemies of God.

My humble interpretaion,
Mary

Last Edited on 9-Jul-2009 5:15 PM

You contradict yourself so much Dr Leaky. Jesus did talk about the end times. WHat has John the Baptist have to do with anything in this conversation. Dont tell me you think he is the same as the Book of John. ROFL..

You try to argue like you are smart and know what the bible says..You try to argue like you know all because science says so and yet you dont know the science behind it either.

And another question for you. You said you say thestream ad in the local newspaper..Which local. makes a person wonder about the creation ministry conference that was held in orangeville.

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[a]these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences,[b] and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
The Great Tribulation

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
The Coming of the Son of Man

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

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Walking in Faith

April

Last Edited on 16-Jul-2009 8:36 AM

Chris

Last Edited on 19-Jul-2009 8:48 AM

That is an excellent scripture for post trib rapture!
Thanks Moriah, the rapture won't happen until something happens to the sun, moon and stars.

Chris

April

April

These spurious theories were presented at the "Jesus Seminar" which purported to try and discover the real historical Jesus and claimed that Jesus did not say and do all the things that were written about Him.

The Bible is the Word of God. It is inerrant. Period!
Still, Peter foretells, in 2Peter 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." Therefore I am not surprised by any of this.

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Loving the LORD more every day

Hannah123aka Audrey

Sadly, so it seems, Dr. Leakey will. Perhaps then he will allow himself to believe. Until then I do not hold out any hope for him.

Bill

Chris

Bill

Something for you to think about. Have you ever in your life been in the presence of someone very charismatic, a teacher perhaps, who said something to you that stuck in your mind virtually word for word? That you can still recall pretty much verbatim 10, 20, 30 years after you heard it? Of course you have. We all have. Now, imagine you're one of the disciples, in the presence of Jesus - God incarnate in human flesh - and He is speaking, saying things so amazing that they resonate deep within your being. Don't you think you could accurately write about what He said many years later? Of course you could.

Consider that Jesus spoke with such authority that those in His orbit simply found His words unforgetable & they could recall them when they finally wrote them down. Is this so far fetched? I think not.

Why is it that the statements of other writers 2000 or more years ago are accepted as accurate & true but not the Bible? Can you give me a logical answer, Doc?

Tyler

Last Edited on 20-Jul-2009 2:30 PM

Last Edited on 22-Jul-2009 2:05 AM

Revelation ( no S ) is the revelation of Jesus to John,,not the baptist..of what is to come

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

I have briefly read the 5 gospels. What is really funny is that they use part of the Bible for their book. So I guess it must be useful to some people as a reference. Even to Daniel the Doctor, because if he believes this book then he believes part of the bible..OH NO>>>>>>

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Walking in Faith

April

Last Edited on 22-Jul-2009 8:16 AM

Doc, your books are from the gnostics and are not inspired, are biased from the false teachers of that time that were already there and denounced by the Apostles.

The Bible has Staying Power

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Psalm 12:6-7)

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. (Hebrews 4:12-13)

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.(2 Timothy 3:16-17)

Leave the gnostic gospels Doc, you're waisting your time there.

Serge

Last Edited on 22-Jul-2009 8:47 AM

The 144K of Israel is an example. Once the "first harvest" has taken place, all who die after go immediately befor the throne of Christ. Their body is not buried.

You can read this all in Daniel, John and Revelation. I still have to use the library computers and don't have my reference materials handy. If you question me, check it out with Pator Rod.

Bill

Last Edited on 22-Jul-2009 1:27 PM

Acts

1In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

6So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"

7He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

9After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

10They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

This Jesus could walk through walls, he had already gone to heaven and came back.

Remember when Mary tried to touch him in the garden and he said no, I am not clean,,and yet when he came back he asked Thomas to touch his hands and his side.

Jesus was truly man and truly God before he rose again. But when he had risen he was dirty from Hell. Please read Psalm 18
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Walking in Faith

April

Last Edited on 23-Jul-2009 10:52 AM