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according to the Jewish calendar it is currently the year 5769. More info on that visit

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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time" - Abraham Lincoln

"Is the Lava Dome at Mount St. Helens
Really a Million Years Old?"
by Keith Swenson

Radioisotope dating conveys an aura of reliability both to the general public and professional scientists. The best "proof" for millions of years of earth history in most people's minds is radioisotope dating. But is the method all it's cracked up to be? Can we really trust it? The lava dome at Mount St. Helens provides a rare opportunity for putting radioisotope dating to the test.

1980's Lava Dome, high atop Mount St. Helens, in Washington State, USA

In August of 1993, I had the exciting privilege of accompanying geologist Dr. Steven Austin and others from the Institute for Creation Research on a climb into the crater of Mount St. Helens to view the lava dome. It was one of those experiences that was well worth every exhausting moment! The dome (Figure 1) sits like a small mountain (roughly 3/4 mile in length and 1000 feet high) directly over the volcanic vent, which is at the south end of the huge horseshoe-shaped crater blasted out of the mountain by the May 18, 1980 eruption. It is composed of a volcanic rock called dacite and appears to an observer in the crater as a huge steaming mound of dark, blocky rubble.

Actually the present lava dome at Mount St. Helens is the third dome to form since the 1980 eruption, the first two having been blasted away by subsequent eruptions. The current dome started to form after the volcano's last explosive eruption on October 17, 1980. During 17 so-called dome-building eruptions, from October 18, 1980 to October 26, 1986, thick pasty lava oozed out of the volcanic vent much like toothpaste from a tube. Dacite lava is too thick to flow very far, so it simply piled up around the vent forming the mountain-like dome, which now sits as a plug over the volcanic orifice.

Why does the lava dome provide an opportunity to test the accuracy of radioisotope dating? There are two reasons. First, radioisotope dating methods can be used mainly on volcanic (igneous) rock, such as dacite. (Fossil-bearing sedimentary rock cannot be directly dated radioisotopically.) Second, the date of formation of the dacite is known. (This is one of the rare instances in which, to the question, "Were you there?", we can answer-"Yes, we were!") It is widely assumed that the radioisotope clock is set at zero and starts ticking when igneous rock solidifies from a molten state.

The author, K. Swenson, in front of dome, in Mount St. Helens' crater

The concept of radioisotopic dating is fairly simple. The method used at Mount St. Helens is called potassium-argon dating. It is based on the fact that potassium-40 (an isotope or "variety" of the element potassium) spontaneously "decays", becoming argon-40 (an isotope of the element argon). This process proceeds very slowly at a known rate, having a half-life for potassium-40 of 1.3 billion years. In other words, 1.0 gram of potassium-40, in 1.3 billion years, would decay to the point that only 0.5 gm was left. Theoretically, given certain assumptions, one could measure the amount of potassium-40 and argon-40 in a volcanic rock sample and calculate how old the rock is. When this is done, the age is usually very great, often millions of years.

In June of 1992, Dr. Austin collected a 15 lb. block of dacite from high on the lava dome. A portion of this sample was crushed, sieved, and processed into a whole rock powder as well as four mineral concentrates. These were submitted for potassium-argon analysis to Geochron Laboratories of Cambridge, MA, a high quality, professional radioisotope dating laboratory. The only information provided to the laboratory was that the samples came from dacite and that "low argon" should be expected. The laboratory was not told that the specimen came from the lava dome at Mount St. Helens and was only 10 years old. The results of this analysis, shown in Figure 2 (below), were recently published.1

Sample (Mt.St.Helens' new dome)

"Age" (in millions of years)
1. "Whole Rock" 0.35 ± 0.05
2. Feldspar, etc. 0.34 ± 0.06
3. Amphibole, etc. 0.9 ± 0.2
4. Pyroxene, etc. 1.7 ± 0.3
5. Pyroxene 2.8 ± 0.6
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Figure 2. Potassium-argon "ages" for "whole rock" and mineral concentrate samples from lava dome at Mount St. Helens.

What can one observe about these results? First and foremost is simply that they are wrong. A correct answer would have been "zero argon" indicating that the sample was too young to date by this method. Instead, the results ranged from 0.35-2.8 million years! Why is this? A good possibility is that solidification of magma does not reset the radioisotope clock to zero. Probably some argon-40 is incorporated from the start into newly formed minerals giving the "appearance" of great age. It should also be noted that there is poor correspondence between the different samples, each taken from the same rock.

Is this the only example where radioisotope dating has failed to give correct dates for rocks of known age? Certainly not! Dalrymple2 gives the following potassium-argon ages for historic lava flows (Figure 3):

Historic Lava Flow

Potassium-Argon "age"
(in millions of years)
Hualalai basalt (Hawaii, AD 1800-1801) 1.6 ± 0.16
Mt. Etna basalt (Sicily, AD 1792) 1.41 ± 0.08
Mt. Lassen plagioclase (California, AD 1915) 0.11 ± 0.3
Sunset Crater basalt (Arizona, AD 1064-1065) 0.27 ± 0.09
0.25 ± 0.15
Figure 3. Potassium-argon "ages" in millions of years for historic lava flows.

Another example is found at the Grand Canyon in Arizona. The bottom layers of the canyon are widely held to be about one billion years old, according to evolutionary chronology. One of these layers is the Cardenas Basalt, an igneous rock amenable to radioisotope technology. When dated by the rubidium-strontium isochron method the Cardenas Basalt yielded an "age" of 1.07 billion years, which is in agreement with the evolutionary chronology.3

However, volcanoes of much more recent origin exist on Grand Canyon's north rim. Geologists agree that these volcanoes erupted only thousands of years ago, spilling lava into an already eroded Grand Canyon, even temporarily damming the Colorado River. Rocks from these lava flows have been dated by the same rubidium-strontium isochron method used to date the Cardenas Basalt, giving an "age" of 1.34 billion years.4 This result indicates that the top of the canyon is actually older than the bottom! Such an obviously incorrect and ridiculous "age" speaks eloquently of the great problems inherent in radioisotope dating. (Numerous other radioisotope "ages" are also given.)

Radioisotope dating is widely perceived to be the "gold standard" of dating methods and the "proof" for millions of years of earth history. But when the method is tested on rocks of known age it fails miserably. (The lava dome at Mount St. Helens is really not a million years old! We were there! We know!) By what twisted logic then are we compelled to accept radiometric dating results performed on rocks of unknown age? I would submit we are not so compelled, but rather called to question and challenge those who promote the faith of radioisotope dating.

Radioisotopic Dating does not work on historically known rock ages!

"It is obvious that radiometric techniques may not be the absolute dating methods that they are claimed to be. Age estimates on a given geologic stratum by different radiometric methods are often quite different (sometimes by hundreds of millions of years). There is no absolutely reliable long-term radiological `clock'."6
William D. Stansfield, Ph.D

1 Austin, S.A., 1996. Excess Argon Within Mineral Concentrates from the New Dacite Lava Dome at Mount St. Helens Volcano. CEN Tech.J., 10(3):335-343.
2 Dalrymple, G.B., 1969. 40Ar/36Ar analysis of historic lava flows. Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 6:47-55.
3 Austin, S.A.,(edit),1994. Grand Canyon: Monument to Catastrophe, Institute for Creation Research, Santee, CA, pp 111-131.
4 Austin, Ref. 3
5 Austin, Ref. 3 [not used in on-line version, at this time]
6 Stansfield, W.D., 1977. The Science of Evolution, Macmillan, New York, p 84.
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Walking in Faith

April

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Walking in Faith

April

Hannah123aka Audrey

April

Bill

April

Dinosaur drawings have been found on cave walls in Utah, and carvings found buried in Peru, and so on. It's a matter of public record. To see the pictures and get the story, please visit the website:
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/dinocarving.html

Now how would anyone be able to draw them if they hadn't seen them? There are even pictures of dinosaurs living among men, as seen in the Inca burial stones.

It's in the Bible because it's true.

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Loving the LORD more every day

Hannah123aka Audrey

So, in one hundred years, all these things have been discovered. Is it so hard to believe what is possible in 6000 years?

I don't think so.

Glory to the Father for the things He has done!!! Amen.

In reality, air balloons were used by the Chinese for fun in ancient times. They also used gun powder for fireworks and that's how we got to the science of where we are today.:(

Native peoples already had aspirin. The Chinese had opium for pain. Science was only used in mass marketing the product for us all. And, the list goes on.
Discovery of natures bounty isn't science. It's discovery.

At least Paul believed in God before his conversion. Like I posted before, I'd rather witness to someone who never heard of God or the Lord Jesus than someone who is set in his heart and head there is no God.

I could post dozens of examples from the Scriptures of men who didn't believe in God and what happened to them, as well as women. However, it wouldn't do any good. Leakey would still believe I'm threatening him and not warning him to change his ways and thinking.

Bill

job 40 – Behemoth

15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

(Job 41):

1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?
4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?
5 Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?
6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?
7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?
8 Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.
9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?
11 Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.
12 I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.
13 Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?
14 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.
15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
17 They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
18 By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
22 In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.
23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.
24 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.
25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.
26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.
27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.
28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.
29 Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.
30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.
31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.
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Walking in Faith

April

Stay In Jesus,
Chucky <*))><

Day in the hebrew in genesis is the same day used in the ten commandments...think about that please
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Walking in Faith

April

YOM as always meant a period of 24 hours and always will mean that too. And to Dr Leakey, the dinosaur word was invented in the 1800', the word commonly used in the Bible is DRAGON which is also what the Chinese and other cultures have lived with, so dinosaurs once lived with men and probably still are although collectively thought of as extinct, there have been sightings in the states of giant birds that rerssembled Pterodactyls and there is a strange animal that has been seen in the swamps of Africa.

Serge

And to Dr Leakey, the dinosaur word was invented in the 1800', the word commonly used in the Bible is DRAGON which is also what the Chinese and other cultures have lived with, so dinosaurs once lived with men and probably still are although collectively thought of as extinct, there have been sightings in the states of giant birds that resembled Pterodactyls and there is a strange animal that has been seen in the swamps of Africa.

It bears repeating apparently.:)

We humans were born in sin and will die ... once. Then we will live for eternity, either in heaven or hell. That's the bottomline. But Leakey doesn't want to see it ... anymore than he wants to see the evidence of God.

Bill

The word evidence here is used in it's original form from the Bible of Greek, Hebrew.

For those who believe that man is their own god they have plagiarized the Bible.

Bill has used the word in the context of what this word represents..... which is Scriptural.

Written years apart, many thousands of years apart, the Scriptures fit together like a well made puzzle. Man couldn't do that if he tried. Only God can do something like that.

The world spends more time attempting to disprove God than to admit He really lives. Ezekiel 38,39 will prove God, but many will still not see Him. Israel became a nation again after nearly 2,000 years of being disband, and in one day, as the Bible said it would, it became a country again. Its people have come out of every godless country on earth, too, just as the Scripture state.

No, I have resigned myself to Leakey just trying to irritate us and ending up "left behind."

Bill

Hannah123aka Audrey

Yeap,,I guess you are right you have to be intelligent to read this.

15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

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Walking in Faith

April

He has incredible physical strength and power.

He has a tail that is like a cedar tree that he swings back and forth. (That's a huge tail!)

His bones are very strong, as though they were made from tubes of bronze.

His limbs are as strong as rods of iron.

He lives in marshes and watery places, keeping his body submerged and hiding among the plants.

He is so large that if he is in a river when there is a raging flood, it does not bother him.

What animal does this describe? It sounds like a dinosaur. Maybe a Brachiosaurus, or possibly a Supersaurus or Ultrasaurus (both are recently discovered huge dinosaurs). It certainly isn't an animal we have around today. An elephant, for example, is very large, but its tail is very small. So I think, without question, this is a description of a very large dinosaur.
Quote

You are so afraid of the rules of "religion"that you wont open up your eyes.

Jesus was against religion,,the rules and laws etc that had nothing to do with loving Jesus.

I cant live good enough to go to heaven. I can play all the games of religion and stil not go to heaven. There is a difference.

There is only one thing to do .and nothing else.

John 3:16...Nothing else...Nothing else.
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Walking in Faith

April

Last Edited on 6-Aug-2009 9:27 PM

Science changes all the time,,the Bible doesnt.

I dont care if I get ridiculed, but tell me, you come here and say your piece and no one stops you. You could be banned, but you are not.

Your being here has strengthened many people, has caused them to search the scriptures more, and increased their faith. Others who are here who arent sure of their belief, your questions,,and peoples answers have helped them realize the truth about the word and God.

God will use anyone Dr...even you.

But the truth of the matter is,,He still loves you and always will.

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Walking in Faith

April

Last Edited on 8-Aug-2009 7:27 PM

Why would we think the world is flat, the old testament talks about the world being round..

The Bible never changes,,,Science does to suit itself.
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Walking in Faith

April