I truly don't know the answer to this question.

I have read several people on here post that the Marriage Supper is after the Rapture. I accepted this but then reading in Rev., I thought that would mean the saints/believers that come out of the trib would miss the supper.

Reading in Rev. I found this:

Rev. 19:9 And the angel said to me, Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb."...

So this reads to me that everyone that obtains righteousness in Christ through faith, including the saints of the tribulation, will be at the marriage supper. So the marriage supper is not until the New Heaven and New Earth? (Rev. 21?)

Any comments/answers/?

Please answer with scriptures only if I may ask.

Blessings to All My Rod's Blog friends,
Mary

" The bride not knowing when the bridegroom would come was to keep herself ready at all times.
1. In Matthew 25 Jesus gave the parable of the ten virgins who were called to a marriage supper. These virgins when the heard the Bridegroom was coming would go to meet him and light the way with their lamps.
The groom, best man and other male escorts would leave the groom's father's house and conduct a torch light procession to the home of the bride.
The groom's arrival would be preceded by a shout. This shout would forewarn the bride to be prepared for the coming of the groom. The guests would be invited to the wedding. In the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, Israel is the invited guest to the ceremony and feast.
2. Once the Bridegroom arrived the wedding ceremony would take place and the bridegroom would spend their honeymoon night together in the home provided by the bridegroom.
The bride would be adorned in her "wedding garments."
3. Shortly after arrival the bride and groom would be escorted by the other members of the wedding party to the bridal chamber (chuppah). Prior to entering the chamber the bride remained veiled so that no one could see her face. While the grooms men and bridesmaids would wait outside, the bride and groom would enter the bridal chamber alone.
C. Following the marriage there would be a seven day honey moon in which the bride groom would be together. At the end of the seven days the couple would emerge and the invited guests would have a "marriage supper."
Conclusion: The marriage takes place in heaven when Jesus takes believers to be with Him in the Rapture.
The marriage supper takes place after the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus and the invited guests are Old Testament and the Tribulation saints. The marriage supper takes place in the Millennium, the one thousand year reign of the Lord Jesus on the earth. "

Mary, I agree with his conclusions, and I can't wait!!

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Loving the LORD more every day

Hannah123aka Audrey

In Yeshua,
Bill

Audrey, thank you for this additional info. I can agree with the conclusion with how all this info is laid out but all this info and some verses in Rev. lead me to some additional questions.

1.Why aren't all the believers "the Bride"?

2. Why are some the Bride and other's just invited guests?

3. (Rev. 22:9-10) then (Rev. 22:17)Read as if the Bride is both the New Jerusalem and the believers that live there.

4. Also, if the Bride hasn't made herself ready until Rev. 19:7, then this would give the Lord time to include all the saints except the Millennium saints (which I don't understand either at this point).

Audrey and bill, thank you for studying this with me. I have a great booklet by Fred Overton which I love on Rev. He explains the marriage supper the same as the sight you posted above.

I agree with Fred with most of his study but don't agree with all he states. For instance, Fred states about the Millenium:Revelation booklet pg 55.

"Even though outwardly everyone adheres to the rule of Christ, there are still some who are not "truly saved". When Satan is released from prison this latent opposition to Christ will be made manifest. Because of this, Satan will gather people from all over the world to march on Jerusalem and attack Christ. They will be so deceived by Satan they believe they can defeat the Lord."

Wouldn't this refute the OSAS theory? And, wouldn't Christ millennial reigh be with believers?

After we study who the Bride is, perhaps I or someone else could start a "new study" on the millenium reign. If anyone is interested.

God Bless,
Mary

P.S. Dr Leakey, why are you still waisting your time on here? Seems your time would be better spent some place else where you are learning and growing on a subject you like and not just spewing negativity. Stay here, if you want. Your time is your own and perhaps the length of time you spend here shows you truly are looking for God somewhere.

God loves you even though your Father issues run deep and long.

Mary

Last Edited on Jun 11, 2009 7:39 AM

Now on to the questions:
Good points all, Mary;

May I take a stab at providing my opinion - which is only that - based on things I've read. For instance, the Bride of Christ are His followers that believe, so all believers are the Bride, not just some. (But only the Raptured saints are at the Marriage itself). That means the Raptured and Tribulation Saints will be at the Supper, as well as OT saints.

Arnold Fruchtenbaum, who has studied all this, goes so far as to say that the Marriage supper could be at the beginning of the Millennium reign. I'm not too clear on that yet, but it is an intriguing thought. It would account for the New Jerusalem. The Bride cannot have all her bridal gown until the Bema judgment, so all the Saints will have been judged.
I get the impression that we can be wed without being judged yet,

I agree with you on the "not really saved" part. We are indeed OSAS. But being Justified (saved) does not mean Sanctified (worthy of reward). We might be adopted sons of God but our level of inheritance (rewards) will be based on what we did after we were saved. Backsliders might only "get in the door" and that's it. I want to rule and reign with Him as well. Our time here, once saved, should be used to earn those rewards. So my impression is that those that have not died when Jesus returns tojudge the world will live in the new kingdon, which Jesus will reign over. They will have children, and so on, and after 1000 years, those that defy the LORD will side with Satan and come against Him, and that will be where Satan is sent packing for good.

Again - my thoughts only, Mary and Bill, and I'm very open to discussion on it!! It's a learning process, isn't it?

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Loving the LORD more every day

Hannah123aka Audrey

Great thoughts, notes and points. Everything you posted is what I have always understood but sometimes my brain just gets stuck in these questions. :)

For example: If we understand that God does specific events then shouldn't we believe that the entire Bride of Christ was there for the wedding ceremony? My brain is kinda stuck in the fact that the entire Bride was not at the ceremony but are actually just guests.

Anyway, I just go back to my KJV.

Interesting, (Rev. 19:7)- the bride has made herself ready; (agreeing with your notes above, right before the mil. reign.)

When we are told that we can finally see the Bride it is (Rev. 21:9)- and like what you posted above would be after the mil. reign. And when John looks at the Bride it is Jerusalem. I realize that the Bride is also the believers.

Could it be possible that the marriage happens after the mil. reign and is with all believers?

When we reference who all is invited to the marriage feast in (Matt. 22:1-14), all are invited, both bad and good. Matt also reads as if judgment happens before the marriage ceremony.

Just some thoughts...

Thank you for studying this with me!

Yours in Christ,
Mary

In Jesus,
Bill

Whenever a person has a conscience that knows what the right thing to do "is" they are coming into and are already be in the presence of God.

You submitted your money to someone who needed. That is Love without wanting anything back in return.

Many times people had their hand out but this time you gave it was the "right" thing to do, for you. That inclination, as you call, it a pure love. (wanting nothing back)

That is who God is in our lives. That is the joy we speak of. "Somethings we will never forget that have happened." Do you believe that we do the right things to us by having a gun put to our head? We don't.
We just want more of this relationship with giving and caring and we found where it is written and who the author of this part of us is. We become addicted to trying to do the right thing. This is what awaits us when we die but more importantly this is what infuses us while we live.

We call Him God. We are lead not by people but by searching to find the words that make sense of what we are doing in the Bible and we live in this feeling that we will never forget this goodness by doing the right things. This is our freedom that no one can take away. It's not religion it is a way of living.

We found out who taught us that He wanted compassion for others and not our sacrifices in the physical. It's in the Book that you don't believe in.:) This joy of giving, loving and sharing....

When you said;"I will never forget the look on her face" did you do it for a reward? Did you know how you would feel? Did you know before hand what the look on her face would be? When something makes an impression like this...I believe it is of God in our conscience.

We do it for the joy of loving another more than keeping our money or time and being self absorbed.
We do things because they are right.(well, we try:) When we know right from wrong we are accountable to our conscience. This is where our Spirit and the person who put the conscience in our bodies abides.

I'm an ex catholic and I know the reward, behavior modification, political system big time.
That's when I went searching and ended up in the occult which ground me to a halt in a type of darkness and panic.
I identify with the rage you have. I found out it isn't their fault that I never read the Manuel of life.
It's my choice.

God is the good in our lives. And, like the father you are to your children, He forgives our screw ups.:) But, like the father you are to your children, He will let us know when we are wrong.

Where there is chaos, God is not there.
He also wasn't there during the crusades. Religion and politics were there and that's where the enemy of God can hurt and destroy.

Know the difference. It's in the Book.
Jesus said that men will blame their killings of others in My name but they are wrong. They will do this for themselves.....

You have a life to live and God wants you to live it to the fullest .... that usually means for others in some way or another.

Watch for the sparrows....just cause you don't notice them, doesn't mean they aren't there....

Man craves the very power that corrupts.
There is flesh and spirit in us all.

To say no to bad in the Spirit is the freedom to change the world but you have to choose between good and evil and live your life that way. Each individual has to do the same. You are not responsible for what I have done in my life and so on......

Love your children and family with all of your heart.
Do what is right and you will find the perfect love that transcends it all.

In my case He found me.:)

Can new Jerusalem be the Bride and us beleivers be the wedding quests?

Chris

Thank you for your study here. You are indeed following my train of thought as God is an "includer" not an excluder. I am having trouble with other men's studies gone before my/ours here on this blog. I am having trouble believing that God will only have some be married to Christ and the rest of the body of believers only participants of the supper.

So, we go back and look to clues in scripture. The one you sighted above is part of what spured on my questioning.

I hope any and all will study on with us.

I have just moved from Kentucky to central Virginia and have limited time but will try to continue on with this study and your's also Chris about Yah's feasts.

Yours in Christ,
Mary

Chris

Agreed. The scripture on the virgins, the passages in Matt. 22 on who is invited to the supper (all), and all the passages concerning the Bride. Then tying them altogether. Will take some time and some study. Interesting point on "buying". I will keep this in mind as I go over these passages.

Don't you agree that it is unlike God to exclude believers? Unless, however it would be the Jews that are part of the marriage and Gentiles just invited to the supper. I have found this dynamic distiction as to what I understand as the ones "written in from before the foundation of the world" concerning the predestined, as being Jewish. That is a "whole" other subject for another time.

yours in Christ,
Mary

Believers are the Bride of Christ ( I think both Raptured and Tribulation Saints). Those invited to the Marriage Supper might be the OT Saints. I know I said that. The distinction I wanted to bring is that we Christians are the Bride of Christ. The Jews have always been the Bride of the Father, God. Does that make sense?

Looking forward to your thoughts, dear friends.
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Loving the LORD more every day

Hannah123aka Audrey

Yes, that makes perfect sense and I found the scripture last nite that supports you statement.

I will start a new post with this continued study but with emphisis on "The Bride".

I hope you will continue to study along with me there also. And, also, anyone else interested in this topic of scripture.

Yours in Christ,
Mary

Know what happens when you forsake or deny God? A childhood friend of mine turned to your side, Dr. The other day, after going through a million bucks, the family farm, a wife and family and finally a girl friend who foresook him, he put a gun to HIS head. I do not expect to see him in heaven.

My regret is, Dr., I didn't know his life took a dump. I would have talked to him like I do you. He at least once went to church when we were kids. Perhaps there would have been a better chance than with you.

There is a real heaven and a real hell. Christ Himself spoke of it often in Matthew and John. In fact, nearly all of the Lord's words written contain warnings of a hell.

The Bible is as real as the day is long, as they say, Dr. If you just read the parts about Israel being given their country, it being taken aways because they foresook God and how they would be persecuted, and how they have come back to it is amazing. It's actual history happening.

You can mock all you want, but you can't deny Israel is once again it their land, and it was done in one day, just as the Bible said.

No, Leakey, there is no "gun" to my head to love you. I do because Jesus said that's the way He wants me to live now. The old me is pretty much gone. Some of me stuck around just to be a pain, but over the past 31 years I have learned to love first then offer Christ. Try Him. Bet you like 'em!

Bill

Last Edited on Jun 17, 2009 6:15 PM

Just my 2 cents :))
Chris

Last Edited on Jun 18, 2009 5:02 AM

Last Edited on Jun 18, 2009 7:27 AM

The antichrist will enter the Holy Land and defile the temple. He'll do that during the trib. (And the temple isn't built yet.)

Secondly, Israel won't get nuked. If you really believe the Arabs will overrun Israel. read Ezekiel 37-39.

This battle won't be "the big one," but it will seem like it. The armies going against Israel will be massive, like a hug colony of ants heading for a picnic. But God is going to step in. The one to be nuked will be Russia and surrounding countries.

The antichrist will probably come on the scene after the Ezekiel war because of the huge void of power created when God wipes them out. (It will take the Isralies seven years to bury the bodies--the years of the trib.)

Bill

Chris

Last Edited on Jun 23, 2009 4:47 AM

Chris, your points are well taken. I however, am a pre trib-er also.

As you understand that believers are here during the trib period, how do you explain the functioning of the presence of the Holy Spirit as evil is so greatly multiplied?

2 Thess 2:6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

So, do you believe that God removes the Holy Spirit from within believers and from the earth and leaves us here during the trib? Wouldn't it have to work that way?

I have some other scriptures for my belief and will gather those together for you.

As we study together,
Mary

Chris

Once the Rapture--and, yes, the word "rapture" isn't in the Bible: You know it as well as I--takes place there will be a constant flow of people entering heaven. Individuals, families, the 144K Jews [they will go forth on the earth preaching Christ and be killed by the antichrist]. However, following the 7 years of trib, Christ returns to put Satan in hell and whip the boys of war. He reigns for a 1,000 years. No more death or "taking up."

One requires many study materials, Bibles and hours on this subject. To me, it's the most important subject of the day.

During one of my studies on the end times,my wife said satirically: "Need another Bible?" I had four Bibles of three translations, a Bible dictionary, a Bible help guide, and several books by prophesy scholars spread out. (She gave me a hug.)

Don't worry, you won't be around to lose your head (Unless you lose it beforehand! LOL) or "pick a number." Times are a changin', my brother. Read Ezekiel 38-40. That's coming next. Ez. 37 has come to pass. Watch CNN and FOX (but not too long).

Iran's so-called "election" excited my spirit. Why? Because it proved God's plan is right on schedule.

The Holy Spirit will not be taken up until Christ comes to run things. In Yeshua and filled with the Holy Ghost,

Bill

Last Edited on Jun 23, 2009 8:46 AM

Response:
Tell me Dr. Leakey, where does your definition of good come from? In an atheistic, humanistic world there is no good or bad, it is all up to each individual as to what the actual definition of good is. And what is good according to Bob may be very distasteful to Sue. Who says that giving to the poor is a good thing to do? Where does that come from? The evolutionary process tells us that the weak misfits of this world should be eliminated and only the strong survive. It’s all about "me" and what’s best for "me". That’s what “survival of the fittest” is all about. That’s what Darwin stated in his book “Descent of Man.” So you, Dr. Leaky do not have any basis, from your belief system, to call what you did good. You are using a definition that comes from outside of your belief system. Your logic is flawed to say the least.

The only true definition of good comes from the One who IS good - the One from whom all good emanates. He gives the definition of what “good” truly is and that’s a standard that never changes. And it just a true for Bob as it is for Sue.

When you gave your handful of change and called that “good” you were using a Christian definition, which is affirmed all throughout Scripture.

True Christians do not do good because they are looking for a reward in heaven. They do good because first of all, the Holy Spirit is working in their lives to change them from “non-good” to “good,” to “conform” them to the “image of Christ” who was “good” in the truest sense of the word. Secondly they do “good” because it pleases the One they love the most - their Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Doing “good” does not earn heaven for anyone. A zillion good deeds would not suffice. Only salvation through Christ’s death on the cross can guarantee that.

In your present state, Dr. Leakey, you will go to hell whether you believe it exists or not. It is real and is waiting for all those who reject the truth of God’s Word and thumb their nose at Him. Jesus said, “I came to seek and to save that which is lost.” You are one of those lost but you do not have to be.

Growing in Him - Joanne

Last Edited on Jun 24, 2009 7:58 PM

There will be no mistaking the "taking up." Obviously there will be people--billions around the world--who suddenly disappear. A dear, sweet soul my wife and I take home after church is 82. She said to me one Sunday afternoon: "Well, if the Lord takes us up and all my stuff is in your car, including my clothes, what will we wear?" My wife and I got a big grin (I didn't dare LOL).

"I'd hug you if I could," I said. "My dear, you will instantly be clothed in a white robe." That seemed to settle it for her.

Cars, planes, big trucks, trains with Christians at the helm will crash. CNN and FOX may not miss too many of its staff, but they will have a field day reporting the "taking up."

I have friends and relatives I have preached to for years who are stiff-necked about coming to know christ as personal Savior. I told them all: "You'll find Bibles and study material in the living room next to my chair. Other Bibles are in our bedrooms and the bathroom. ALL have the salvation points highlighted and/or underlined. There it will tell you want to do. They just scow and shake their heads.

Churches will have people go into them bewildered. They won't be able to figure out how they got left behind. I'm quite certain some so-called preachers will be in hot water over their preaching lies.

Whether we are taken up before the Ezekiel war is a point I am deep in study about. However, let me say here that I am in no way, NO WAY attempting to "set a date." I merely seek God's Word as He has laid it out to us so I can tell others: Repent! The time of the Lord is at hand! And to enlighten the brothers and sisters to provide hope and offer a ministry tool.

We see the world around us getting worse and worse daily. My city of Altoona, Pa., used to have perhaps one homicide a year. This year alone they had four before February!

There are so many signs it would take a book to illustrated them all. Many have been written. I listen frequently to Perry Stone, Dr. Jimmy DeYoung, John Ankerberg, and Pastor John Hagee, to name sa few. I read their writings on the end times and compare them with the Bible.

The war in Ezekiel--and I keep repeating myself--is the key. Watch Iran, Russia, Syria, Israel, Turkey, Saudia Arbia ... all of these and more will set the stage for the Ezekiel war.

The points you made will take place during the trib, as I said, not before. There is much to happen, but we have seen how God can change things in a day. I truly belive the "mess" in Iran is God's hand putting in place the evil ones He needs to bring about his Ezekiel prophesy. (That, too, is Scripture.)

I'll deal more with this as time allows. I've have some special quiet time this past week. I spent as much time possible in the Lord.

In the Lord,
Bill

Damascus has never been in ruins....YET
The reason I ask is I beleive this will be part of the start of the 7 yr trib.

Anyways, All I know is that your not outta here without me....BUT you might be stuck with me during the 7 yr trib!!
:))
Chris

Last Edited on Jun 23, 2009 3:07 PM

However, I believe from my readings that it will be flattened by God's massive world-wide earthquake based out of Israel. The Bible says the mountains will be flattened, and that Damascus, as you stated, will cease to be a city.

We won't be around to see it, as you pointed out. It occurs during the trib, yes. When the antichrist sets up shop in the temple (yet to be built), God's furry is released and he shakes the entire world. That's when the ole devil runs to Babylon.

My good brother, the Lord has given us all these signs so that we may know the blossoming of the fig tree (it has) and the signs "of the season," God's season.

Here in Pennsylvania one can barely discern the seasons anymore. Fifty years ago winter was winter. It arrived sometime in late November or early December and didn't leave until the end of March or early April. My kids once said, "Dad, didn't we used to get sleds for Christmas, and make snowmen?" Of course we had, but they were reflecting a climate change.

Today winter is mild or bad, or a mix, or barely happens. Summer can be hot, cold, rainy and humid, or all of the the above in one week, sometimes one day. Spring is in late Feb. or March, sometimes in Jan.; winter returns for a few weeks; then spring tries again; sometimes we get early summer, too.

I don't think we need stupid ex-politicians telling us how screwed up the climate is, but it's not because of "global warming." It's a sign of the later days.

Bill

Chris

I believe, such as in Revelation, the "stars" that are falling could well be nuke bombs. To the Revelator it would appear as a falling star.

Hey, we never totally disagree, Chris, just sometimes "read" [it] differently. LOL Hey, we're still brothers.

In Him (and not always right),
Bill

Zechariah 5
The Flying Scroll
1 I looked again—and there before me was a flying scroll!
2 He asked me, "What do you see?"
I answered, "I see a flying scroll, thirty feet long and fifteen feet wide. [a] "

Chris