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The Law
herald

16 post s
26-Sep-2008
4:13 PM
In Psalm 119, the word, "Word," is used interchangeably with, "law," "judgments," "precepts," "statutes," "commandments," "testimonies."

HIS WORD = HIS LAW

"A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, and CAUSE YOU to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27.

When His Spirit is within us, we are empowered by His Spirit to obey His Word - His law. And that is what "walking in His Spirit" is all about. The Holy Spirit will never lead us into sin, or, "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

We have abused grace:

"I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Ga 2:20.

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. HOW SHALL WE, THAT ARE DEAD TO SIN, LIVE ANY LONGER THEREIN?" Rom 6:1.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW." Rom 3:31.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW." 1 John 3:4.

When Moses disobeyed the Lord and struck the rock, God charged him with unbelief. Num 20:12. When the children of Israel disobeyed the Lord, they were not able to enter The Promised Land, because of unbelief. Heb 3:19. Unbelief comes out of an evil heart. Heb 3:12.

DISOBEDIENCE = UNBELIEF
OBEDIENCE = FAITH.

ROM 16:26 REFERS TO "THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH."

"By faith Abraham...obeyed." Heb 11:8.

Jesus said, "Not every one that SAITH, Lord, Lord, shall enter (Rev 22:14) into the kingdom of heaven, but HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.

MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?

And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." (LAWLESSNESS) Mt 7:21-23.

"And hereby we do know that we know Him, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not HIs commandments is a LIAR, and the Truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth HIS WORD, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby we do know that we are in Him." 1 John 2:3-5.

True faith obeys His every Word - His law. It is not what we SAY, but, what we DO.

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions ("of the law") from us...TO SUCH AS KEEP HIS COVENANT, AND TO THOSE THAT REMEMBER HIS COMMANDMENTS TO DO THEM." Ps 103.

COVENANTS HAVE CONDITIONS.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." REv 22:14.

Rick

482 post s
26-Sep-2008
6:16 PM
DISOBEDIENCE = UNBELIEF.
OBEDIENCE = FAITH.
Covenants have conditions.

Writen by herald

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I do not agree with disobedience as unbelief, nor do I believe the covenant with Christ is conditional.

This has been argued in here before to no avail.

Christ death as penalty for all sin can not be conditional, IF IT WERE > THEN SALVATION WOULD BE UP TO US AND CHRIST'S DEATH WOULD HAVE BEEN MEANINGLESS.

Politely insert " helloooooo " here

Chucky1146

869 post s
27-Sep-2008
7:34 AM
DISOBEDIENCE = UNBELIEF
OBEDIENCE = FAITH.

I have to agree with Rick..
Disobedience does not equil Unbelief.
Maybe UNBELIEF = DISOBEDIENCE

You can believe and still be disobedient...
Adam believed but was disobedient
David believed but was disobedient
Look at Peter...Peter believed but denied Jesus 3 times...that was disobedient.

Almost all the Characters in the Bible were disobedient at one time or another.

Jesus Bless,
Chucky <*((><

Joanne

544 post s
9-Oct-2008
11:23 AM
Scripture supports what Rick states "Christ death as penalty for all sin can not be conditional, IF IT WERE > THEN SALVATION WOULD BE UP TO US AND CHRIST'S DEATH WOULD HAVE BEEN MEANINGLESS."

Salvation is totally of God from beginning to end. He draws us, He saves us, He keeps us and one day He will restore us to perfection.

Growing in Him - Joanne

DeaconTyler

151 post s
9-Oct-2008
7:04 PM
We cannot be under law & grace at the same time. Otherwise grace is no longer grace. The law was our tutor to bring us to Christ Who, by his death on the cross, imparts grace to us. To suggest that His sacrifice on the cross for us to fulfill the law was somehow insufficient to save us thru grace is an affront to our wonderful Lord & Savior.

Thank you Lord Jesus for your mercy & grace!

Tyler

jonzy

366 post s
10-Oct-2008
3:32 AM
dear neighbours, good today to yous and yours.______GOD'S Word went out and did NOT return Empty !!!! ; for GOD'S Word[ the Lord Jesus Christ ] was Victorious over the " power of sin and the curse of death ", by the POWER of GOD'S LOVE for his SON and his CREATON!!!!!!!!____YES we/all HUMAN's are only SAVED from the power of sin and the curse of death because of the true LOVEING sacrifice that THE Lord Jesus Christ made when he gave up his Mortale/Human life for ALL._____we now are responsible for our individual beings/souls to choose to talk/walk the path of good[obedience] or to talk/walk the path of bad[dis-obedience]._____ie. lucifer chose the path of bad[dis-obedience], he is responsible for becoming satan._____the WORD of GOD[ the Lord Jesus Christ ] still stands/resting/waiting for the Day/Time when GOD says to him " GO ".----humbly, i pray that our light's of love, fueled by the Holy Spirit Oil of GOD'S LOVE, are still A-lite when that " GO " signal is given !_____with love\peace/understanding....d a n i e l
Mary

530 post s
10-Oct-2008
8:53 AM
Hello All,

How would you(anyone), tell the Jews that now, with Christ's salvation, it is okay to break the law?

John 1:17 for the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

When Christ tried to tell them the law was done away with, this was their vicious response:

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law he ought to die, because he has made himself the Son of God."

Just wondering,
Mary

DeaconTyler

152 post s
11-Oct-2008
5:01 PM
The law is not done away with. The law is holy, just & good. Nothing wrong with the law....there's something wrong with us, though. The paradox is that while we are obigated to keep it, the reality is that we can't do it. Jesus fulfilled the law that we cannot keep. He paid a debt He did not owe because we owe a debt we cannot pay. By His grace and mercy our debt to the law is paid in full. That's not a "green light" to sin, by the way. Sin still has consequences. If we sow to the spirit we reap of the spirit. If we sow to the flesh we reap of the flesh. The flesh counts for nothing. The wages of sin are still death, as per the law. But the wonder of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross is eternal life in spite of our sin. If we confess our sin He is faithful & just to forgive us & cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Hallelujah! Thank you Lord Jesus!
Mary

531 post s
12-Oct-2008
8:33 AM
Dear Deacon,

I agree with you, the Law, Holy and Good....for us. The Lord only desires good for us and everything He sets forth is for our good and health.

I understand Heralds point.

Faith, something we have to do.

God provides the salvation.

Man responds, either in faith or disbelief.

The book of Romans is misread by many Christians.

Imagine being one of the first people to try to get people to understand the "New Thing" that God has done. He has finally conquered sin and death thru His Strong Arm, Jesus Christ. Paul spends all of Romans trying to move the people "from the Law" into righteousness and justification thru "faith in Jesus".

Paul, is trying very hard in the Book of Romans to bring the peoples from the Law into Grace and Truth. i.e.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

How would Paul tell the Jews that God has now moved beyond "the Law" through the fulfilment with Jesus Christ?

Well, during Christ's life, there is the partial hardening of Israel.

God hardened some hearts.

God predestines others to be....what? "The first fruits" Why did God predestined some of Israel to hear and understand?

Romans 8:29...in order that he might be the first-born amoung many brethern.

Romans 8:31 What then shall we say to this? If God is for us, who is against us?

Who was against the first fruits of the Christian Church....THE JEWS, THE RELIGIOUS JEWS, the ones that heart was already corrupt and hardened to God. The Jews that kept God's people tied to laws all the while they broke them themselves and were corrupt.

(Matt 23) Jesus goes to great length, with His "Woes" to the scribes and Pharisees. These, would have been some of the ones who's hearts were hardened.

Paul was encouraging the first fruits of the Christian Church by explaining to them how Christ had now fulfilled the law and humanity was now entering the "age of Grace".

They were PREDESTINED. (Not hardened)

They were CALLED.

They were JUSTIFIED thru faith in Jesus Christ.

They were afraid of being killed by the religious Jews.

Yes,
God provides the salvation.

We must believe.

It is a relationship otherwise it is compulsion.

Why would God allow his creation to be tried with "free will" if it wasn't important to Him that we love him of our own "free will." We are created in His image and made to have fellowship with Him.

I hope everyone will read Romans with this in mind:

God is inclusive, not exclusive.

To understand "predestination" we must understand the hardening of the Jews.

We must be more concerned for the lost than we are for ourselves since we already have faith in Christ and will be spending eternity with God.

Romans 9:1 I am speaking the truth in Christ, I am not lying ; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of the brethern, my kinsmen by race.

Paul is saying that he is grieved over the part of Israel that does not understand Christ (is hardened) and that he, Paul would rather perish from Christ than see any of his beloved Israel be part of this hardening.

But, there is good news for Israel, Romans 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written.

Praise God, God is fair and just. His mercies are new every morning.

Yours in Christ,
Mary

Last Edited on 12-Oct-2008 8:54 AM

Laura

219 post s
12-Oct-2008
1:55 PM
When God revealed his glory to Moses, and appeared as a cloud by day and a fire by night He was feared and his people were given everything to follow the law. It didn't work as He wanted it to. His majesty was personified in his presence and by nature.. light shone at night, food appeared in the morning, clothes didn't wear out. Yet, hearts did not respond. The law could be followed to be seen but not from the heart.(how can we see a person who covets?)

When God in the flesh came he did not come in glory. He came as just a man. Not with an army, not with majesty but as Isa 53 states He was a man of great sorrows not pleasing to look at.

Who then were drawn to Him? All, like us, knew He was God. By His great Love we were drawn as those past believers were drawn to Him.

This was and is our free will responding to that which is taught by Scripture. The Word made flesh to die for the sins.....

Not the blessings of food, healing but wait....He did/does heal, He did/does feed but more importantly He taught and HE forgave the sins those who heard His voice in their heart and acted upon it. Only God can forgive sin. The law must be in the heart for it to change a person into a new thing. Outward signs of a day or a feast must be held in a heart. To try to go back to the law in order to bring the flesh into submission cannot be done. It failed. Tyler put this so well.

To die for Jesus so that we can be in His presence for eternity is what the martyrs of old and new have done and are still doing all over the world.

Is it significant that the Jew would not even say the word "God" aloud? Yet Our Jesus was the son of man and Son of God!

So much to learn. Yet our answers await us all.

He, Christ Jesus, was not a created being.
He is the great "I AM" Past, present and future tense. ...John 1

Mary

532 post s
13-Oct-2008
10:33 AM
Hello Laura and All,

We serve such an awesome God that truly only requires two things from us.

1. That we love God with all our heart, soul and mind

2. That we love our neighbor as ourselves

On these two laws hang all the other laws.

Loving a Loving Heavenly Father is what God wants from us. He wants our love of our own free will.

God is a Loving Heavenly Father that only predestined specific persons not to respond to Christ in the partial hardening of Israel. But then in His mercy and justice will save all of Israel, as is written.

We as Christians must not look at the fact that we are Predestined as some kind of "lucky club" that we cannot explain. Paul explained it and I explained it above in the scripture I posted.

God has revealed this mystery and Paul explained it.

God has a loving purpose and plan for every person. It is only thru faith in God that we can recieve our salvation and praying and seeking God that we find our earthly purpose.

We have no questions if we look to God's character.

God is love.

Yours in Christ,
Mary

herald

19 post s
18-Oct-2008
6:49 AM
"I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Ga 2:20

"What shall we say then? SHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND? God forbid. HOW SHALL WE, THAT ARE DEAD TO SIN LIVE ANY LONGER THEREIN?" Rom 6:1.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW." Rom 3:31.

Rom 16:26 refers to "THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH."

"Faith without works is dead." James 2.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin.

Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him. (Jesus will say, "I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity. (LAWLESSNESS)) Mt 7:21-23.

Little children let not man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous.

He that committeth sin is of the Devil; for the Devil sinneth from the beginning.

FOR THIS PURPOSE WAS THE SON OF GOD MANIFESTED, THAT HE MIGHT DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the Devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." 1 John 3.

We sin when we return to the ways of the old man. When we walk in His Spirit, we do not sin.

Jesus said, "He that rejecteth Me and receiveth not My Word, hath one that judgeth him, THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, THE SAME SHALL JUDGE HIM IN THE LAST DAY." John 12:48.

The Apostle Paul wrote, "For as many as have sinned without law, shall also perish with law: and as many as have sinned in the law SHALL BE JUDGE BY THE LAW. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED." Rom 2:12,13. (Again, Mt 7:21-23)

Even though Abraham was the father of the faithful:

"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Ga 3:7

"And if ye be Christ's, then are YE Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise." Ga 3:29.

He, still, kept God's law:

"And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.

BECAUSE that Abraham obeyed My voice (His Word), and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." Gen 26:4,5.

His Word - His law will judge each one of us. Do you want His Word to judge you, or, do you want to hear Him say, Well done, thou good and faithful servant?"

""And being made perfect, HE BECAME THE AUTHOR OF ETERNAL SALVATION UNTO ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM." Heb 5:9.

herald

20 post s
18-Oct-2008
6:57 AM
We, only, have one life to live for Christ. We are in a battle with the powers of darkness. Let's stop excusing ourselves because of sin. Be soldiers of the cross!
DeaconTyler

154 post s
18-Oct-2008
6:15 PM
All due respect, Herald, as you are obviously very well versed in the scriptures. However, I don't think anyone here is making excuses for sin or making making light of sin. Sin hurts. The wages of sin is still death. Sin is sin & needs to be avoided. I think we all know that. At the same time, we do fall into sin. None of us is sinless. Far from it. The issue here, though, is the law and what of the law we as NT believers are required to keep.

In Acts 15 this very matter was taken up by the apostles & elders concerning the church at Antioch. Some Phasisees who professed belief in Jesus began telling new converts that they must be circumcised and keep the law of Moses. Quoting Peter to them at that meeting: "Now, therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke of bondage on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" (Acts 15:10)

They then sent the following letter to the church at Antioch (and to us today):

"Greetings,

Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying 'you must be circumcised and keep the law' - to whom we gave no such commandment- it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas & Silas who will also report the same things by word of mouth. For it seemed good to us and the Holy Spirit to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these you will do well.

Farewell" (Acts 15:24-29)

That's pretty simple. Jesus took care of the sin issue on the cross. Our job is to not wander too far from the cross & to make ourselves available to do His will...despite our tendency to sin. Again, as 1 John 1:9 says "If we confess our sins He is faithful & just to forgive our sins & to cleanse us from all unrighteousness".

Hallelujah, Lord Jesus. Thank You again for Your mercy & Grace. We thank You & praise you, Lord, that You loved and died for us while we were yet sinners (Romans 5:8). Amen & amen.

 

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