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That Old Serpent
Joanne
536 post s
24-Sep-2008
6:56 PM
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That Old Serpent We have done much discussion on the fall of Lucifer and the other angels so I am not going over that information again. But I have found out a few other interesting things which this post is about. The word that speaks of the “serpent” in the Garden is “nachash” in Hebrew and is a name for reptile. However, we do not know what kind of reptile this is. Another Old Testament word, “tannin” also speaks of reptiles but more often refers to dragons or sea monsters. But this is the word used when Moses is in Pharaoh’s court with the magicians. The magicians sticks become “tannin” but Moses’ stick becomes “nachash” so we can see that both words are used interchangeably. Although Genesis 3 does not give a detailed description of who the serpent was, we can find out more by studying the other references to it in Scripture. We see in Revelation that Satan is called both “serpent” and “dragon.” In Revelation 9:12 we find “and the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan.” It is clearly stated that the dragon & the serpent are the devil and Satan. Then look at Revelation 20:2 which takes place at Christ’s second coming “an angel coming down from heaven having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand and he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old who is the devil and Satan.” There is no problem identifying who the serpent of old - it is Satan. We also find a description in 2 Corinthians 11:3 where Paul says “I’m afraid lest as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness.” Keep “craftiness” in mind because we will come to that shortly. By these references we can see how the New Testament affirms the Old. What is so special about this reptile? Well he walks and talks and when he speaks to Eve she does not appear to be too concerned when this reptile comes up to her and starts a conversation. As well this particular creature knows about God as shown in his statement “has God said…?” It has a personality, speaks with intelligence and is so compelling that she enters conversation with it. Consider that when Lucifer wanted to “be like God” his choice made him as much unlike God as possible. God was holy, he became wretched. He said to Eve, that the reason God did not want them to eat that particular fruit was because they would become like gods. He knew what would happen to them because he went through it himself and he couldn‘t wait to drag mankind down with him. Eve found out the hard way, that rather than becoming like God, she became as much unlike Him as possible, just like her tempter. “The serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field that God had made.” This craftiness showed an evil side and is displayed when he tells Eve that “you shall not surely die” - in essence, I know more than you. Well he did in one way, because he knew what the outcome would be if she followed him. However Eve’s directions had come from God, the originator of all knowledge, which Eve did not take into consideration. He had said “don’t eat of that tree” but she ignored God's wisdom. Satan offers what seems to be blessing but in reality the result is shame, degradation and damnation. Satan thought he could be like God but he’s not - he’s not omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, immutable or sovereign. He can only function within the sovereign purposes of God to achieve the things that agree in the eternal plan of God for the salvation of sinners, the damnation of sinners and the ultimate triumph and destruction over evil. Growing in Him - Joanne
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ductape
269 post s
24-Sep-2008
8:27 PM
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Very interesting post, Joanne. I've always wondered (and this would be speculation) if all the animals could speak and converse before the Fall. A serpent speaking to Eve didn't appear to startle her, so why couldn't it be they all could speak? God brought them all before Adam, (previous to Eve) and I've always wondered if an interview happened. All animals have personalities which characterize people (Herod - fox, Luther equated some people with cows, stubbornness with mules, and so on). So animals losing the capability to converse wouldn't be out of line, given they can still make their intentions known in dramatic ways at times. (They're prisoner's in their bodies) : ( I've also wondered if the Fall of Satan and the Fall of man didn't happen at the same time. "Creation" was still "very good" until man fell, so Satan falling first would have already marred it. Satan, we know from Job, went to and from Heaven - and that was after the Fall. He was only kicked out of Heaven when Jesus ascended. Yet Jesus tells His disciples He saw "Satan fall like lightning.." (Luke 10:18) Time and eternity are mixed together here, so it gets really difficult to comprehend, but we are always reminded to trust the "Text", no matter how it appears. Satan was in the Garden before the Fall, but God cursed him too, after the Fall. (Genesis 3: 14-15) It's going to take me a while longer yet to comprehend all this, I'm sure. In Christ, ductape
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Joanne
537 post s
25-Sep-2008
11:00 AM
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ductape - some interesting thoughts. I have wondered too if the other animals could talk but as Scripture only mentions the serpent talking we just don't have an answer for that one. As well, when Satan fell is not told, so we can only surmise when that happened. Isn't it interesting how one topic can bring up so many sub-topics? That's what is so great about studying Scripture - you never run out of things to learns. Thanks for your input. Growing in Him - Joanne
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Mary
526 post s
26-Sep-2008
7:10 AM
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Joanne, I agree, the Bible nevers runs out of topics and subtopics. Always so interesting. I have a question for you. In your study did it address this scripture on Satan? Isaiah 14:16 Those who see you will stare at you, and ponder over you; 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, I saw a movie (Duh, Hollywood High School) once with Meg Ryan. It was about an angel that fell in love with Meg Ryan and wanted to become human so he fell to earth. He had to fall to earth to become human. This may sound stupid but this crossed my mind when I read in Isaiah where Isaiah calls Satan a man? Why would Isaiah call an angel a man? Just a thought, Mary
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Chucky1146
871 post s
27-Sep-2008
7:50 AM
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Remember the tower of Babel? Maybe the animals language was changed then along with everyone else... Just a thought...probably wrong, but just wanted to put in my two cents...LOL Jesus Bless! Chucky <*((><
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Joanne
539 post s
1-Oct-2008
9:38 AM
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Mary, I saw that same movie - entertaining but I don't think it contains any spiritual truth. In Isaiah chapter 14 besides the fall of Lucifer (vs 12-15), it is also talking about the fall of Babylon (vs. 3-11 & 22-27), Assyria (vs. 24-27)and Philistia(vs. 28-32). In verse 16 it is referring to the mighty king of Babylon and is showing the complete downfall and humiliation of the once powerful Babylonian king who "made kingdoms tremble." Growing in Him - Joanne
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bill
3 post s
1-Oct-2008
1:06 PM
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Personally, I wouldn't put much credit in a movie. The Bible is all that's needed. Why concern one's self whether animals could talk? God put them here for our use. I know it is simply curiosity, but don't lose sleep over it.
Last Edited on 1-Oct-2008 1:08 PM
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ductape
270 post s
1-Oct-2008
2:14 PM
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Hi Bill, Sometimes it's those "little" curiosities that let you discover some "bigger" truths about the nature of our God. Proverbs 25:2 : ) In Christ, ductape
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jonzy
357 post s
3-Oct-2008
11:33 PM
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dear neighbours, good today to you and yours.____yes ducttape, i agree with you and bill, that as good neighbours we continue to read and shaire and caire as dirrected by GOD, and his son/our Lord Jesus Christ, we all will continue to grow in the simple/trueth of LOVE/LIFE._____i humbly thank you, sis/joanne for the simple trueth of the names in hebrew of that old/original serpant : " nachash " before being punished/Cursed, and " tannin " after sinning/becoming punished/Cursed.____? did this serpent taste the fruit of that tree first, before it tempted/decieved the woman who then gave it too her man ?____if yes, then the serpent would have sinned first, for the animals were suposed to only eat the leaves, not the fruit.____with peace/love/understanding....d a n i e l....p.s. yes joanne, the woman's instructions for life in "the garden of Eden", came from the Lord GOD, through her man.
Last Edited on 3-Oct-2008 11:43 PM
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